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 Post subject: Lorry ban on minor roads
PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 11:44 
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/leicestershire/5078678.stm
BBC News wrote:
Lorries banned from minor roads

Lorries face a fine if they break the weight restrictions
Leicestershire has become the first county in England to ban heavy lorries from all minor roads.

Drivers are being warned they face a fixed-penalty fine if they break the 7.5-tonne limit on non-A or B roads.

Officials said mobile camera units would monitor lorries and they expected to spend £60,000 a year on police enforcement of the weight restrictions.

The ban, aimed at cutting the county's road repair bill, has gradually come into force over several years.

Councillor Nicholas Ruston of Leicestershire County Council said: "We started in the early 1990s and have been rolling it out for more than 10 years and it has cost nearly £2m.

Satellite navigation

"The truck drivers are being told we have a blanket weight restriction across the county - it is available on the website and available on map and on satellite navigation - stick to the rules we want to help you."

A number of B roads in west Leicestershire have been downgraded under the scheme.

New signs advising of the restrictions are in place.

So how exactly is farm produce such as cattle or sheep going to market/slaughter, arable crops such as grain or potatoes, or even milk going to be transported?


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 11:59 
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Rewolf wrote:
So how exactly is farm produce such as cattle or sheep going to market/slaughter, arable crops such as grain or potatoes, or even milk going to be transported?


Building materials. Goods for shops.

It'd be fun to photograph the council vehicles involved in roads repair and refuse collection.

Are they REALLY as barking mad as they appear? Or have they thought of these basics and covered then somehow? For example with an 'except for access' exemption?

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:26 
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If its a council decision I doubt its been properly thought through at all. It's more likely to have been a 'great idea! lets do it!' decision without any thought of the consequences.


I doubt any right-minded HGV driver would use minor roads if they could avoid it anyway!

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 13:52 
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SafeSpeed wrote:
Are they REALLY as barking mad as they appear? Or have they thought of these basics and covered then somehow? For example with an 'except for access' exemption?

Lets go back to the press release...
Leicestershire County Council (9 June 2006) wrote:
Getting heavy with lorries
The first project in the country aimed at improving the environment for residents by making sure lorries travel on suitable roads has been completed in Leicestershire.

The County Council’s lorry control strategy is now complete and has brought in 7½ tonne weight restrictions in many parts of Leicestershire to concentrate through traffic on the major roads rather than via villages and unsuitable areas.

Leicestershire leads the way in this field and rather than looking at weight restrictions in a piecemeal fashion, the County Council decided in the early 1990s to select a network of routes for through movements and restrict other roads to lorries that were delivering locally.

Since then, a series of weight restrictions has been introduced across the County with the final one being implemented in Bottesford in March.
The County Council has kept all A and B roads available for all traffic but has restricted other roads in rural areas where possible. This meant that a number of B roads in the west of Leicestershire were downgraded.

Improved signing advising of the restrictions has also been put up across the County to help lorries keep on appropriate routes.

Arrangements have been made with the police to make sure that the bans are enforced. The police have been using modern camera technology to help track down and pursue offenders.

Nicholas Rushton, the County Council’s Cabinet Member for Highways and Transportation, said: “This project has environmental benefits for Leicestershire residents and helps to reduce the cost of maintaining and repairing minor rural roads.

“We are also working with satellite navigation system suppliers to ensure that lorry drivers are provided with high quality information about the restrictions.”

Inspector Rod Hockin of Leicestershire Constabulary’s Automatic Number Plate Recognition department, said: “We are working closely with the County Council to ensure that we target the areas of Leicestershire where breaches of the regulations are taking place. Not only do these vehicles cause damage to the road surface by continual use but they have a major impact on peoples quality of life. We want to work with local communities and road hauliers to provide safer communities for all.”

A dedicated e-mail address has been set up for members of the public to report problems: weight.restricted@leicestershire.pnn.police.uk

Alternatively, people can report concerns via Leicestershire Constabulary’s non-emergency telephone number - Leicester (0116) 222 2222.

Notes for Editors:
1.The last weight restriction, north of Bottesford, came into force on 29th March.
2.Previously, enforcement was undertaken by the County Council’s Trading Standards service. They took reports from the public, obtained owner details from DVLA and contacted operators. From time to time they have had assistance from the police in undertaking site checks. Trading Standards do not have the power to stop vehicles; they cannot get instant replies from DVLA and they cannot issue on the spot fines.
3.A sum of £60,000 has been included in the County Council’s budget to pay for the police to enforce the County’s weight restriction orders.
4.This does not relate to overweight lorries – this continues to be dealt with jointly by Trading Standards and the police
5.The limits also apply to empty lorries if the lorry plus load can legally exceed 7½ Tonnes

Photo Opportunity:
To celebrate the project, reporters and photographers are invited to the A426/Countesthorpe Road junction in Cosby at 11.30am on Tuesday, 13th June. Please contact the Press Office for further details.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Media Enquiries: Telephone 0116 265 6274

So access is allowed, but enforcement will be through ANPR, so this begs the question as to how visiting and occasional delivery/collection vehicles will be "registered" as being valid in the area, or will it just be the usual: 2 weeks later the fine appears in the post and you have to deal with it after the event.

What I don't understand is how it is going to make much difference - we are talking about small roads here, and 7.5 ton+ vehicles don't normally use such roads unless they have a good reason to.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 17:48 
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How are they going to weigh the lorries anyway?
Or does the actual weight of the lorry not come in to it, only the maximum/minimum weight it could at some time carry?

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 17:53 
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Great idea,
I live on a very minor road (little more than a lane) that just happens to be currently providing a very good by-pass of the roadworks on the A1/A421.
Since the works began I have noticed a dramatic increase in Artics using the road, many hammering along at an easy 40 (although this is hard to judge as a pedestrian) on a single lane road.
Worst bit is the potholes/uneven surface mean that the whole house shakes when one goes past - hate to think what it is doing to the foundations.
The veg packers further down the road also seem to have expanded, we used to get the odd rigid curtain-sider but now have the super-tall artics coming down here trying to squeeze between parked cars (this is a residential street).
Deffo needs a 7.5 tonne limit IMHO.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 17:58 
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Presumably they're not going to put up plates at the start of every unclassified road.

Given that it's often difficult or impossible to tell whether the road you're on is classified or not, how can drivers be expected to know whether the ban applies?

And how can they actually prove that a driver isn't using a road for access to premises?

BlackadderTF wrote:
Great idea,
I live on a very minor road (little more than a lane) that just happens to be currently providing a very good by-pass of the roadworks on the A1/A421.

Since the works began I have noticed a dramatic increase in Artics using the road, many hammering along at an easy 40 (although this is hard to judge as a pedestrian) on a single lane road.

Deffo needs a 7.5 tonne limit IMHO.

That might well be a justification for a specific ban on that road. It doesn't justify a blanket county-wide ban.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 18:16 
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if any signage is posted it would read something like no access for vehicles exceeding 7.5 tonne unless for access,

around leicestershire there are many quarrys, farms where access is needed


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 18:41 
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"Except for Access" restrictions mean that the increasing use of artics for farm deliveries will continue. The axle load is an issue but the main problem is the width of such vehicles and the damage they do to the edges of the road.

However this pales into insignificance compared with the damage done by 4X4 tractors and their trailers often travelling at up to 40 mph and driving onto the verge when they meet someone else. This creates ruts at the edge of the carriageway which leads to the edge cracking up and falling away into the ruts. Also what axle loadings do these tractors and trailers run at, I wonder? 7.5 tonne weight restrictions will do nothing about these problems.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 19:44 
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Ziltro wrote:
How are they going to weigh the lorries anyway?
Or does the actual weight of the lorry not come in to it, only the maximum/minimum weight it could at some time carry?

The plated weight is used for such calculations. My tractor unit weighs around 7.5 tons on its own but is still classed as a 44 ton truck. I think.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 20:45 
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If the main roads weren't overregulated by inefficient traffic lights and suited their purpose then lorries wouldn't need to rat-run.

I'm thinking about the chronic congestion caused by a certain two sets of linked traffic lights on the outskirts of Winchester, where the congestion vanishes once you pass the junction after 10-20 minutes of queueing!


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 23:02 
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BlackadderTF wrote:
Great idea,
I live on a very minor road (little more than a lane) that just happens to be currently providing a very good by-pass of the roadworks on the A1/A421.
Since the works began I have noticed a dramatic increase in Artics using the road, many hammering along at an easy 40 (although this is hard to judge as a pedestrian) on a single lane road.
Worst bit is the potholes/uneven surface mean that the whole house shakes when one goes past - hate to think what it is doing to the foundations.
The veg packers further down the road also seem to have expanded, we used to get the odd rigid curtain-sider but now have the super-tall artics coming down here trying to squeeze between parked cars (this is a residential street).
Deffo needs a 7.5 tonne limit IMHO.


I agree it is a good idea & not before time, I hope other counties follow.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 23:53 
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Whilst the idea is good in theory - isn't it likely that the same people who decide on local speed lmits - reducing a safe 40 to 30 will have some axe to grind in a wholesale reduction of weight limits to "save a few bob", by forcing heavies to take a roundabout route to stop them using "our back road"

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 18:42 
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Rhythm Thief wrote:
Ziltro wrote:
How are they going to weigh the lorries anyway?
Or does the actual weight of the lorry not come in to it, only the maximum/minimum weight it could at some time carry?

The plated weight is used for such calculations. My tractor unit weighs around 7.5 tons on its own but is still classed as a 44 ton truck. I think.


it is with a trailer John. as a solo unit, it is classed as a class 2 (rigid0 and that applies to driving licence too (although not relevant here).

all these vehicles are fitted with a plate and they carry a ministry certificate. these both state the maximum axle weight as well as the maximum gross weight ie what it is allowed to weight with a load on. that is what the vehicle is classed as regardless of whether it has a load on or not. an 18 tonner is an 18 tonner whether it weighs 9 tons (most are around this when empty) or it weighs 18 tons fully laden. a tractor unit is still classed as an HGV even without a trailer as they normally weigh in at around the 8 ton mark without a trailer

i think its time we made a stand. they dont want us parking overnight in or around their towns and cities and now they dont want us using their roads. i say thats fine. we wont deliver ANYTHING to their areas and see how long it last before the local economy forces them to see the truth. any shop with restricted storage will feel it first. the petrol stations wouldnt be far behind. the everyday produce would hit before anything though. bread and milk is delivered 7 days a week to the vast majority of shops. i can certainly confirm this for co-op and tesco as i have delivered bothto them

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 19:33 
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I assume the desired outcome is for smaller delivery vehicles to be used(?) rather than for the delivery not to be made.

In fairness, large lorries on minor roads are often only delivering a small part of their load to each drop, so IN THEORY :bunker: a larger number of smaller delivery vehicles could be used.

Case in point, an artic turned up at our garden centre to deliver a single 7ft tall tree....

I'm not saying this is my view, I'm just trying to second-guess what the council are thinking: "we used to manage without 44 ton lorries; we can again".

And yes, I know this would:

1. Increase transport costs
2. Increase number of vehicles on the road while lowering average tonnage.

From my perspective, our firm has one delivery van and it's the biggest (and fastest :twisted: ) 3.5 tonner I could find. Often it goes out half full or less, but I'm not going to run a Russian Doll-like fleet of different sized delivery vans where one will do.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 22:20 
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Whilst I have considerable sympathy with BlackadderTF, perhaps the Council should have taken action in anticipation of the roadworks, either by applying for a temporary weight restriction, or anticipating the additional usage and re-surfacing/upgrading the carriageway prior to them commencing, rather than simply repairing the damage afterwards.

We are now into the 'English' strawberry season (Wimbledon next month :roll: ) and some of the places that I have to collect from are almost beyond belief. Narrow lanes, narrow bridges, tight turns. There is one that I know of, but haven't been to for a number of years, which involves driving through a farmyard (tight) and then following a dirt track to the third field. :cry: It was only ever a run for a rigid. :lol: I even got photographed a few days ago because of local animosity towards the growing/packing operation in a certain area. :D I smiled for the camera

Whilst I have every sympathy for these people, I also recognise that the countryside is a thriving production environment and as such, the produce needs to get to the retail market. I have no time whatsoever for the 'NIMBY' fraternity that moves from the City and then complains about transport operations. What do they want? The crops to rot in the fields, or the fields to revert to uncontrolled woodland. An interesting concept, except that a few years down the line, they, or their offspring, would be complaining about logging operations.

The location of 'pack-houses' and the utilisation of 'migrant' workers and the economic effect in local areas is a wholly different discussion. At the end of the day, these people pay into the national coffers (as well as the local shops/pubs in many cases). The alternative is to totally revamp the principles of Business rate taxation and agricultural usage exemptions whereby the rural roads would be dominated by Fastrak tractors and trailers ferrying produce to Industrial sites.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 01:31 
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I hope that those who support such a ban don't then complain when they can't get deliveries to their house because the drivers don't want to risk the points on their license.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 12:06 
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I seem to have come across as a bit of an "anti-trucker" nimby, but that's not the case at all. I actually hold a C+E license and do the odd driving job for a firm that my father drives for (including delivering cloth bales to mills around Bradford the other month - now that was bloomin tight!).

There is no temporary limit on this road as we have a truck depot at the A1 end - the drivers from here are very switched on, always giving cars plenty of room and if they do ever come up the road (most go straight out onto the A1) they do so at sensible speeds. It's the drivers cutting the A1/A421 corner recently that have become a problem, and I hope that will end once the works finish (either that or I will need to buy a tank to get over the potholes - and the edge of the road is literally falling into the ditch)

As for the ban meaning no deliveries, I think your coming at this from the wrong end. Remember that the firms that use 44-tonners for house deliveries do so because the householder/farmer has paid them to do so - not out of the goodness of the hearts. If the council ban artics from minor roads then the firms will have to use smaller wagons or they will go bust. From the arguments you seem to be saying that if a ban happens householders will be sat around thinking "where's my stuff got to" whilst fleets of artics and drivers are sat in the depots thinking "well, your all screwed now - ho ho ho" and nothing gets delivered. Of course, in reality, the firms will just buy a fleet of vans and get on with it or make no money.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 18:53 
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Johnnytheboy wrote:

In fairness, large lorries on minor roads are often only delivering a small part of their load to each drop, so IN THEORY :bunker: a larger number of smaller delivery vehicles could be used.



not always the case. i had a drop at a garden centre in larbert a few weeks ago. an artic was there with 6 pallets but he had come from down south and he was heading to dunfermline afterwards. the alternative would be convoys of the same trucks running all over the place and im sure the 'keep out of L2' brigade would then step in when others started overtaking.

we cant win. bigger vehicles, someone moans, smaller vehicles but more of them, someone else moans. we are only trying to do our jobs and get goods to the consumer who happens to be the source of complaint however you look at it :roll:

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 19:40 
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The fact is that what were 32 tonne vehicles in the 70s are now 44 tonnes.

We have surely now gone way beyond common sense and reason in allowing 44 tonne vehicles access to anywhere the haulier wishes to go. We need what the railways have long had, Route Availability limits. So I applaud this council in seeking to return to reason in banning monster trucks from unsuitable roads. Don't forget there was a recent application to operate 60 TONNE MONSTERS on our roads; fortunately the DfT turned the proposal down.

Sorry, but truckers have to accept there are limits to where they can go with their monster vehicles !! They will just have to buy and operate smaller ones.

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