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 Post subject: MAD Captain Ends Truce!
PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2006 18:33 
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This story appeared in the Express today. I think it worthy of debate. It does not mean and should not be interpreted by the more deranged lurking idiots that people on this site support or condone blowing up or nicking scams even though they may have a silly chuckle to themselves about it it private - but also acknowledge that the policy is leading to daft behaviour on the part of some - and worry about how this guy's action may impact on a more balanced campaign which stands a chance by virtue of its reasoned thinking. :wink:


Per the "Express" today - MAD has declared an end to its "truce" over blowing up scams :o :shock:

They have now vowed that every scam is a "legit target as these things don't save lives - the stats do not show this or prove it!"

Mad Captain Gatso wrote:

This is open season on scammers .... :evil: You keep an eye open for what happens next - it's going to be civil disobedience on a grand scale We will target every camera. Before these cams wwe had the safest roads in Europe .. now this is not the case

The only thing they have succceeded in doing is increasing the number of cameras and allowing safety standards to fall.

They have been very good at depriving people of licences and employment and reducing the number of visible policemen on patrol


Unfortunately - I cannot disagree with his logic ...I even have feelings of Schadenfreude when I read a story about his antics and see a burnt out cam.. you know "tut - little vandal but no sorrow for the demise of PC Gatso and Sergeant Truvelo. :wink:

However, I think Paul's campaign of reasoned calm response and an alternative set of stats will win more ultimate support and response longer term .


A classic quote from Brainstorm

the weird one in Wales wrote:


These people would prefer to drive dangerously and injure my wife and children at a bus stop.


OH REALLY!

Well -for the record if I were placing these things all over the place and spouting off about how dangerous these drivers were and then was confronted with my novice driver son or daughter driving well above the speed limit - not once but TWICE - would not matter who clocked them.. I would have those car keys for six months as an internal punishment and in his job - made sure the press knew about it. as a matter of PR and being seen to ensure his own were not above the law.

MAD claim to have devised a means to destroy a scam painlessly and without harm to anyone around within seconds and insist they are not saying "drive anyway you want .. at any speed you fancy."


They say drivers should drive according to conditions and this does not mean driving above a speed limit - but safely and considerately

They also want drivers to keep cars dirty. With a drought in force - this should be fairly easy! :wink: and legal :hehe: :popcorn: :boxedin:

Brake are dismayed to learn Captain Gatso is now leading his Madmen to mayhem and back.

Brake spokesperson Sarah Fatica wrote:

This will put more lives at risk. The latest figures show deaths have fallen by 42% at cam sites


Sarah - it should be zero.. at a cam site. Last year - 70% reduction claimed too :wink: at some cam sites...hmmmm! :scratchchin:

and the death rate has not decreased anyway. :roll: Accidents can happen anywhere if COAST is not observed. We are just moving the problem to other roads which may have become busier as people choose alternative routes to the one with the cam... Or .. the rate regressed to the mean :wink:

And for heavens sake Sarah - it really does not help your cause when you come out with crass comments like this

Sarah Fatica of Brake wrote:
Speed cameras only catch criminals - people driving too fast


In some areas they are prosecuting people for trivial blips .. usually to get a bum on a Speed Course seat. Lancs at least addressed the problem correctly and we do know that the course is being offered mostly to 10%+5 these days and warning letter given to 10%+2 - and this was after local public pressure. :wink: - headed by Lancs based Swiss mate Willi and his pals.

But seriously Sarah .. in case you do lurk on here .. and I am sure BRAKE people do :wink:

[i] I read all local papers in the North West before I read the tabloids. Two of the main ones from the big 'burbs of Manchester - well you know I post up a lot of the stories I read there for general comment as I think they are reflective of UK as a whole. I have relatives in the big 'burbs too. I care about those people very much .

But each day I open these papers ranging from local Cumbrian press to the Chester Chronicle and Liverpool Echo.

Each day I read a story about one and sometimes several separate incidents - of people who DIED out there or were left to die or were seriously injured.

Of these incidents ...most seem to be hit and runs, uninsured, thief drivers, chavs with no licence, drunks, drugs and one recidivist cretin and another DJ high on drugs and drink who killed one teenager and seriously injured the other. The fact both had been to a party at his home earlier that evening is another matter of course.. but the guy was high, drunk, showing off and a menace to everyone else. Had they been mine - they would not have been present at any such party. I am easy going and prepared to negotiate with my kids - but I still retain rules and discipline and required standards of behaviour.

These are the REAL criminals on our roads and cameras do not catch these. You see - they are street wise and observant to cams only and it does not matter if yellow or grey or behind another road sign. Somehow these people observe these and no other hazard. I do not understand HOW or WHY this is the case either. :roll:

But even if they do get pinged - so what? They have no licence and they'll continue anyway... :roll:

(Yet ... I am about to post one "innocent" type - and "innocent" used loosely because he was at least "legal" insofara as being licenced and in a car which was legal, insured and roadworthy and belonged to him.)

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Last edited by Mad Moggie on Sun Jun 18, 2006 21:13, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2006 18:46 
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Can we see a full scan of this one please?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2006 19:54 
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Rigpig kindly sent me the following scan. Thanks again mate.

Image

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2006 20:12 
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Quote:
Mr Burnstrom added"These people who, as far as I can see, would perfer to be allowed to drive dangerously and kill their fellow citizens, or my wife and children or your family at a bus stop, than pay a fixed penalty for speeding"


:twisted: So if you pay the fixed penalty it is okay to drive dangerously and kill your fellow citizens? :twisted:

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2006 20:43 
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Think of it as a TOLL rather than a fine - except you dont have to stop at the booth to pay! :x

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2006 21:15 
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Ta .. Rigs.

Lots of goodies in paper today :lol:

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If you want to get to heaven - you have to raise a little hell!

Smilies are contagious
They are just like the flu
We use our smilies on YOU today
Now Good Causes are smiling too!

KEEP SMILING
It makes folk wonder just what you REALLY got up to last night!

Smily to penny.. penny to pound
safespeed prospers-smiles all round! !

But the real message? SMILE.. GO ON ! DO IT! and the world will smile with you!
Enjoy life! You only have the one bite at it.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 00:52 
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For those who may need it, here is the OCR text of the article from the Rigpig scan.

Quote:
Gatso Gang .........

Campaigners vow to step up action against hated speed cameras

David Paul, Daily Express 18 June 2006

A VIGILANTE group branded terrorists for blowing up speed cameras last night declared an end to its truce.

Motorists Against Detection, who have not struck for two years, vowed that every roadside camera in the country was a legitimate target They said statistics proved they did not save lives.

Even speed cameras outside schools and on High Streets will be blown up by hard-core members of the shadowy group.

Their leader, who calls himself Captain Gatso, said: “Now we’ve declared open season on the cameras just keep an eye open for what happens next.

“This will be civil disobedience on a grand scale.”

He added: “We are planning to target any and all cameras until the Government sees sense and rethinks its road safety po1icy.

“Before we had speed cameras we had the safest roads in Europe. Since their introduction this is no longer true.

“There will be a zero tolerance policy towards all cameras. We need to focus attention on what the cameras are about.

“There are a lot of frustrated people among our members who have seen the number of cameras increase while road safety levels have fallen.

“The only thing the cameras have done successfully is to reduce the number of traffic officers patrolling our roads and lose a lot of decent people their driving licences and livelihoods.”

Motorists Against Detection - MAD for short - first hit the headlines in 2000 and is believed to have destroyed more than 1,000 speed cameras, worth several million pounds.

North Wales Chief Constable Richard Brunstrom, who has instigated a zero-tolerance policy against speeding motorists, branded the members of MAD “terrorists” after they struck against cameras in Nottingham and Northern Ireland in 2003.

At the time he said: “We’ve had things that are in effect terrorist devices - bombs - planted in speed cameras. It’s lucky no one’s been killed.”

Mr Brunstrom added: “These are people who, as far as I can see, would prefer to be allowed to drive dangerously and kill their fellow citizens, or my wife and children or your family at a bus stop, than pay a fixed penalty for speeding.”

The 200 hardcore members of MAD use internet chat rooms and coded emails to plan attacks, talking to each other only on untraceable pay-as-you-go mobile phones.

They claim to have devised a new method of blowing up cameras that can destroy them in just a few seconds.

Captain Gatso, a family man in his 40s from north London who drives a BMW M3, said: “Government PR campaigns have failed to convince people that the cameras are there for road safety. Motorists know they aren’t.

“Many cameras have gone up on busy roads without any history of accidents, despite that being the main reason for installation. All the time the camera partnerships and the Treasury rake in millions of extra revenue.”

MAD claims it is not advocating dangerous driving.

Captain Gatso said: “We have said from the beginning of the campaign that drivers should drive according to the conditions of the road.”

As well as a return to attacks on cameras, MAD is planning a national day of action. It will encourage drivers to obscure their number plates to cause havoc with congestion charge cameras as well as those in speed and bus lanes.

“It will be pandemonium for the authorities. What are the chances of being stopped?” said Captain Gatso.

“Most of the organising group are just ordinary blokes with families who arc sick of us heading towards a police state.”

But road safety group Brake was dismayed to hear further attacks were being planned.

Spokeswoman Sarah Fatica said: “This will put more lives at risk. The latest government report shows deaths and serious injuries at camera sites has fallen 42 per cent.

“The number of deaths has fallen 32 per cent because of speed cameras. That’s two people every week not being killed by cars.

“Speed cameras only catch criminals - people breaking the law by going too fast.”


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 01:30 
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I saw one a little while ago that had expanding foam put into it, thinking about it when it is wet it would stuff the electronics, and when expanding and setting it would damage lenses, case etc, having used some some in my loft it is nigh on impossible to clean off properly. so I would have thought that they would have to write the camera and case off.

Anyway, given how many are now being pinged I can see more vandalism of cameras happening especially in far out places, so what next alarms and data links to the police station, if the rate in camera attacks goes up what would that do to police resourcing?

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 11:54 
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I received the following PR from Yorkshire Coast News:

For immediate use

A Summer of MADness?

Motorists Against Detection, the vigilante anti-speed camera group have announced a summer of MADness which will see them target for destruction all speed cameras in the UK.

It’s now going to be a period of zero tolerance against all speed cameras, said their campaigns director Capt Gatso.

The group claims speed cameras are just money-making machines and they have given the authorities long enough to prove their worth.

The first camera to fall in the summer campaign is in south east London on the A2 at the Sun in the Sands roundabout on-slip heading northbound towards the Blackwall Tunnel.

Capt Gatso, the group's campaigns director, said: "We have completely pulled it out of the ground – it is now lying flat.

“You can see some of our handiwork posted on www.speedcam.co.uk.”

He added: “In many areas the cameras have not saved one life - the statistics for road deaths haven't gone down. In some areas they have actually gone up - in Essex, for instance, which has a high density
of cameras there are more people being killed.

"We are now planning to target any and all cameras until the Government sees sense and rethinks its road safety policy. Before we had speed cameras we had the safest roads in Europe - since their
introduction this is no longer true.”

The announcement will surprise many in road safety circles since the group has publicly declared it would not attack cameras outside schools or on high streets.

But Capt Gatso said: “We need to focus attention on what the cameras are about. We’ve said we wouldn’t attack the ones in built up and urban areas but that’s not where most of the cameras are.

“There are a lot of frustrated people among our members who have seen the number of cameras increase while road safety levels have fallen.

“Indeed, the only thing the cameras have done successfully is to reduce the number of traffic officers patrolling our roads and lose a lot of decent people their driving licences and their livelihoods.”

MAD is the UK’s only direct action anti-speed camera group and it’s been going since summer 2000. In that time they have taken out just over 1,000 cameras.

Their membership – who are normally law-abiding people - vary in numbers but there is a hard core of around 200 people throughout the UK who use Internet chat forums, encrypted email and pay as you
go phones to keep in touch and plan campaigns.

The group says it has perfected a new and quick way of destroying speed cameras which will enable them to destroy a roadside camera in just a few seconds.

Capt Gatso added: “The Government and the camera partnerships have failed to spin out via their PR campaigns to convince people that the cameras are there for road safety. Motorists know that they
aren’t.

“All it’s done is further damage the police/public relationship and further alienating communities which they desperately need onside at this time.

“Many cameras have gone up on busy roads without any history of accidents despite that being the main criteria for installation.

“And all the time the partnerships and the Treasury rake in millions of extra revenue.”

Capt Gatso pointed out that the group is not encouraging dangerous driving or speeding on Britain’s roads.

He said: “We have said from the beginning that drivers should drive according to the conditions of the road. The police say we need more training and patrols but the Government says we need more fines.

“But not everyone is paying the fines. Drive a foreign registered car or alter your number plate slightly and you’ll get away with it too.”

One of the future PR exercises for the shadowy group is for drivers to participate in a day of action called ‘National Cover-Up Your Number Plates Day’ to frustrate parking, bus lane, anpr, congestion and
speed cameras.

Capt Gatso told us: “It will be pandemonium for the authorities. What are the chances of being stopped? We have by default, in the form of number plates on the front and back of our vehicles, a mobile ID
card.

“Now we’ve declared open season on the cameras just keep an eye open for what happens next. This will be civil disobedience on a grand scale – covering all areas and people of the country.

“One thing drivers might consider is that when there’s a police car behind you with its blue lights and sirens on think about family members or friends getting points for going marginally over the limit and don’t
let the police past if you don’t think it is safe to do so. Our members don’t.

“We are always straight out of the way for ambulances and fire engines because we admire the sterling work they do.

Capt Gatso is a family man from north Londoner. He’s in his 40s, a professional he owns a BMW M3 and is a keen motorcyclist.

He said: “Most of the organising group are just ordinary blokes with families who are sick of us heading towards a police state.”

He added that the group’s members were all good drivers – most have a professional driving qualification or ride powerful motorbikes on a regular basis – and their aims are to encourage the partnerships to
clamp down on speeding in built-up areas and near to schools and hospitals.

Capt Gatso, the motorists’ friend, said: “What we ultimately want to see is all the UK camera partnerships dissolved into a central ticket office which only concentrates on serious and serial offenders. Each
case should be treated as a proper crime and properly investigated.

“We should be stopping the idiots who get behind the wheel of a car who will speed anywhere but won’t get caught if they avoid main roads and motorways.

“We want to see a higher police presence of trained officers patrolling the roads and put Britain back at the top of the road safety league where it was before the introduction of these infernal cameras.”

Ends

MEDIA CONTACT NUMBER

Press Inquiries (ONLY) to the Media Contact line at 07817 640245

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 21:54 
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Paul

The spedcam website link doesn't work, think tis is it though: http://www.speedcam.co.uk./

There are a couple of burnt out gatso's here: http://www.speedcam.co.uk./index2.htm

Here's the van I took snaps of in Essex: http://www.speedcam.co.uk./index2.htm it's the 43rd picture down on a bridge overlooking the A12 in Essex.

And some more very sorry looking examples: http://www.speedcam.co.uk./index2.htm

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 10:32 
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Not condoning the waste of tax payers money but..

Father's for justice, animal liberation front etc couldn't be ignored as a result of their actions. This kind of direct action does seem to get the issue on agenda.

Destroying the revenue earners will make a real dip in the financial plans of the cameras.

However, they are likely just to replace them with mobiles, which have a mich higher profit margin.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 17:41 
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Which then begs the question, are there groups or individuals out there who would consider attacking a camera van? Have the partnerships looked at this possibility and are the doing what they can to protect thier staff?

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Gordon Brown saying I got the country into it's current economic mess so I'll get us out of it is the same as Bomber Harris nipping over to Dresden and offering to repair a few windows.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 17:53 
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I expect there are groups who would consider attacking an unmanned van, but considering they are normally left in police car parks or other well-secured areas, it is probably unlikely. As for the manned vans, I would think it is very unlikely, there is a world of difference between arson of what is effectively considered roadside furniture and assault/arson against a person. Also they are fitted with video equipment and radios, and even though they aren't popular with the regular bobby they would still pull out all the stops to catch anybody who attempted it.

Gareth


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 10:10 
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I suspect they would be more likely to target their locations.. Regular punctures would cause significant inconvenience and cost.

It would also be easy to target the speed limit signs making the enforcement illegal. I've often wondered why they don't do this. The impact of identifying wrongly prosectued drivers and issuing refunds is much bigger than replacing a 30k burned out camera


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 16:36 
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diy wrote:
I suspect they would be more likely to target their locations.. Regular punctures would cause significant inconvenience and cost.

It would also be easy to target the speed limit signs making the enforcement illegal. I've often wondered why they don't do this. The impact of identifying wrongly prosectued drivers and issuing refunds is much bigger than replacing a 30k burned out camera


Would agree - but can you see the press printing anything about signs ---whereas "camera burned for third time " sells papers - eventually some reporter is going to ask why do the same cameras get targeted, or the press might see through the scp spin

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