Safe Speed Forums

WHEN a plane crashes, investigators look for the black box to reconstruct the event. Now, in a case that may shape future car crash court cases, NSW police have been allowed to download data from a car involved in a high-profile fatal crash.

The NSW Supreme Court agreed to the download after the car's owner took out an injunction restraining police from examining data in the car's computer systems. Experts say that depending on the model and make of car, information such as brake use, what gear was used, and the speed at the time airbags inflated is retained in a vehicle's electronic control unit (ECU).

The car owner's daughter, a Queenwood schoolgirl, had been driving the Peugeot 206 convertible in Mosman in June 2004 when she crashed, killing a friend and injuring two other passengers.

Police impounded the car and retrieved some data from its ECU. But the teenager has appealed against her conviction, challenging the download, which allegedly showed she was travelling at 90kmh. Her appeal will be decided today in the District Court.

The Supreme Court heard the Director of Public Prosecutions had decided not to depend on the initial data download, prompting police to seek another one.

The teenager's father took out

an injunction in May last year stopping the police, or Peugeot technicians, from downloading further information. Justice Joseph Campbell was told the family did not want Peugeot technicians involved if there was the possibility of a defect in the car.

The judge allowed the new download three weeks ago, with restrictions.

A police spokeswoman confirmed it was the first time police had used such information in a car court case but said they had been using downloads from trucks involved in crashes for years.

A technical expert, who wished to remain anonymous, said the computers were designed to aid service and maintenance, and only incidentally retained data of use in reconstructing a crash.

He said although the Peugeot's airbag ECU would have information about speed at time of impact, the airbag computer module would have be sent to Europe for downloading.

"Police forensic examinations can work out the speed at which the wheel was locked, but that takes a fair amount of work. If they can just say to the car 'what happened here' - and the car tells them - it then becomes really an issue of privacy and civil rights," he said.

"A number of safety organisations, not just the police, have been calling on manufacturers to fit black boxes in cars. Obviously what has made it simpler is cars have become more and more electronically controlled and it's easier to have some form of data recorder on it."

Robert McDonald, head of industry research with NRMA Insurance, said in North America insurance companies were using the car's computer data to work out who was at fault. In Australia computer technology tracking keys were used when investigating fraudulent theft claims.

"I do have concerns for privacy issues and who owns the data," Mr McDonald said.

"[On the other hand] I think it could be a valuable tool for police, and maybe it would serve a speed camera-like reminder for people that they may be held responsible for their actions."

Interesting. This facility was installed in cars without the owners permission or knowledge. It was done so the manufacturers could defend themselves against malicious liability claims, though this has never happened in reality. There is no requirement to check the accuracy or calibration of the black box data. How the hell can this be used as evidence.

I think Top Gear should do a feature on which cars have black box style chips in them. May affect your purchasing decision

whats your source for the italicised bit... cos its not in the above article.

incidental in the systems fitted to the car through customer demand.

Bullshit!

if the car doesnt have esp then it seems unlikely you'll have yaw rate or latacc or steering angle unless its incidental in PAS system (not common on hydraulic).

not sure on the privacy issue, seems rather close to impounding the car for other forensic checks after the incident.

It doesn't have to be downloaded by the manufacturer, the Police Accident Investigation Team are quite capable of plugging a laptop into the diagnostic port and downloading the necessary data.