Safe Speed Forums

Hi all. Just discovered SafeSpeed and very much like what I see. Membership will probably follow. For now, here is my maiden post. Attached is copied from an Industry newsletter. One wonders how these fuels will be treated for tax purposes.

BP and DuPont work on ethanol alternative

BP and DuPont recently said that they had created a partnership to
‘develop, produce and market a next generation of biofuels’, on which they have been working together since 2003. This was followed by an announcement that they were about to produce a plant-derived fuel, biobutanol, which is more advanced than ethanol. This gasoline bio-component is the result of the partnership’s association with British Sugar at an Associated British Foods factory that was being built to produce ethanol from sugar. BP is to invest upwards of £25 million and the UK has been targeted for its introduction into the world market. Nine million gallons of biobutanol should be in production by 2009. Du Pont says more advanced technology than at present will be in place by 2010, and plans have already been drawn up to invest more than £100 million each in some larger-scale UK plants. The partnership aims to introduce additional global capacity ‘as required’.

_________________
"Experience isn't everything - but it's most of it".

Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you.

I have always wondered when Formula 1 would switch over to bio-fuels.
I am sure the exposure would give the product a welcome shot in the ar*e Sorry, ARM!

In the States, there seems no problem with customers making choices, when Indie cars use ethanol.

Should I consider changing my Peugeot 307 diesel to run on cooking oil just yet?

_________________
Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

Butanol is a good source of fuel as it can be made from quite a lot of things. I think you can make it from sewage too. If you harnessed the bull from Westminster you'd have enough to power most of the cars in the UK

I used to run a drag racer on methanol. The cheapest source was truck air brake system de-icer....strange but true..

The great thing about it was well over 100 octane. We got a 30% power boost when we built the engine specificaly to run on it. The down side was that it used twice as much

Also it was quite toxic as a liquid.

_________________
Speed camera policy Kills

Very good point about harnessing the BS from Westminster. Also, if we could capture all the hot air from all the "Those In Authority" sources we could all fit Stirling Engines to our cars/trucks and run around cleanly and quietly.

Are we getting a tad surreal here ? I sincerely hope so.

_________________
"Experience isn't everything - but it's most of it".

Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you.

Link to Stirling Engine animation here and here. However, no diagram can do the principle justice!!

_________________
Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

You're right, they are excellent devices. e-Bay usually have some fine working models for sale. Very tempting.

_________________
"Experience isn't everything - but it's most of it".

Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you.

I hope you don't mind my asking this here...

I've been reading about this E85 stuff! Do engines powered by biofuels like E85 use spark ignition, or compression ignition/diesel? Could both types of engine use biofuels? Which type of engine would be the most likely to "win out"?

Perfectly reasonable question. E85 is, I believe, a gasoline replacement. Things like used cooking oil are for diesels and I'm sure more mainstream diesel biofuels are in the pipeline, (sorry, couldn't resist that). I don't have figures but my feeling is that diesel will still run out better in terms of fuel economy whether on hydrocarbon-based fuel or bio-fuel, (from plant-derived products). Doubtless someone on here will bring more fact to this answer.............and I will endeavour to once I have time to delve a bit. Apologies for this shallow quick n'dirty reply.

_________________
"Experience isn't everything - but it's most of it".

Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you.

Not quite. It is 85% petrol 15% ethanol. Some engines are calibrated to use 100% petrol or this ethanol mix.

_________________
Speed camera policy Kills

There is a big probem with "Gasohol".

Alcohol absorbs water, Petrol (for all practical purposes) does not

If water gets into the fuel then the alcohol and petrol will separate out. (Like salad oil and vinager)

This isnt much of a problem in California, but how it would work in a British winter with all that condensation I am not so sure!

_________________
"The road to a police state is paved with public safety legislation"

Gizmo, you are of course correct. I was only offering an answer to the "Is it a petrol or diesel alternative".

An interesting point from Dusty but what about the very high humidity experienced in some, (all?), of the southern states?

_________________
"Experience isn't everything - but it's most of it".

Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you.

Humidity is one thing, condensation in confined spaces is another!

(AS an aside, consider this, the typical blood temp for mammals tells us that 100F/100% humidity is about the worst that the planet has thrown at us for a *long* time!)

_________________
"The road to a police state is paved with public safety legislation"