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Worst rule in the Highway code?

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BottyBurp

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Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 11:21

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FJSRiDER wrote:

BottyBurp wrote:

FJSRiDER wrote:

However my point is drivers that LOOK can see an unlit motorcycle at night

:loco:
But could the biker see where he's going? Especially on a country road with no streetlamps and no moon? I know I wouldn't ride at night without lights... And I hope you don't.

FJSRiDER wrote:

You are not the sharpest pencil in the box are you? Did I say it was being ridden? You can see an unlit PARKED vehicle in the dark. If you look. Can't you?

Listen knob. The context of this discussion was about vehicles on the move, not parked up. Next you'll be telling me it was also parked in a garage with the door shut!

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SafeSpeed

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Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 11:25

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BottyBurp wrote:

Listen knob. [...]

Steady on folks. I don't have time to deal with this!

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FJSRiDER

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Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 11:29

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BottyBurp wrote:

Listen knob.

So have you got any answers or are you just going to continue to throw insults?

BottyBurp wrote:

The context of this discussion was about vehicles on the move, not parked up. Next you'll be telling me it was also parked in a garage with the door shut!

No it wasn't it was about the rule in the Highway Code. You are the one that jumped to conclusions.

We can all see you have utterly FAILED to come up with any meaningful answers to my points. Is that because you have none? Sure looks like it.

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BottyBurp

Post subject:

Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 11:35

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FJSRiDER wrote:

So have you got any answers or are you just going to continue to throw insults?

Ummm, I think you'll find I responded to your insult... I hope you're more observant on the road than you are on here...

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BottyBurp

Post subject:

Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 11:38

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FJSRiDER wrote:

From rules for motorcyclists....
69: Daylight riding. Make yourself as visible as possible from the side as well as the front and rear. You could wear a white or brightly coloured helmet. Wear fluorescent clothing or strips. Dipped headlights, even in good daylight, may also make you more conspicuous.

So all this was about when un-ridden and parked up? :loco:

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BottyBurp

Post subject:

Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 11:51

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FJSRiDER wrote:

We can all see you have utterly FAILED to come up with any meaningful answers to my points. Is that because you have none? Sure looks like it.

If drivers don't look properly, which a lot of them don't, then they won't see a bike. Agreed.

But, if a driver who doesn't look properly, i.e. just 'glances' either in his mirror or out of his window, the driver stands more chance of being alerted to your presence by a bright light than none at all.

Meaningful enough for you? Or are you going to chuck another insult my way?

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FJSRiDER

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Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 11:57

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Last edited by FJSRiDER on Wed Oct 04, 2006 14:43, edited 1 time in total.

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FJSRiDER

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Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 12:06

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Q. Are you a stupid fascist with limited reading skills or are you just a retard?

Last edited by FJSRiDER on Wed Oct 04, 2006 14:43, edited 1 time in total.

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BottyBurp

Post subject:

Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 12:13

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FJSRiDER wrote:

I didn't insult you. I just asked a question (see the question mark?). The first 'insult' posted was ':loco:' from you wasn't it?

To signify the query I had with your statement

FJSRiDER wrote:

However my point is drivers that LOOK can see an unlit motorcycle at night

in the context of moving vehicles, not parked up, which your quote from the HC for Motorcyclists says...

FJSRiDER wrote:

You have made statements that have no background whatsoever in an attempt (presumably) to justify your belief that daytime headlights are somehow beneficial.

Haven't you read my last posting?

FJSRiDER wrote:

You have said (twice) that 'people see the police'. This is simply subjective nonsense on your part in an futile attempt to explain why you believe headlights are useful Even that is doubtful as if they really were seen no-one would ever get nicked by them and so even a very stupid person wouldn't think that. Would they?

Observant drivers shouldn't, I agree - but how many car drivers are observant and how many get nicked my unmarked :bib:

?

I know for a fact, as I see it fairly often, that drivers barrelling down a road will suddenly slow down when they see a cop car/bike in the distance, or indeed, if they see a cop car/bike coming up behind them.

I'd say it's because the cops were highly visible because of bright vehicle colouring and having their lights on.

I didn't realise I'd have to spell it out for you - I was kinda hoping you'd come to that conclusion yourself, hence my earlier question about soldiers in camouflage gear...

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BottyBurp

Post subject:

Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 12:26

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FJSRiDER wrote:

BottyBurp wrote:

If drivers don't look properly, which a lot of them don't, then they won't see a bike. Agreed.

So a headlight won't work. Agreed?

No, not agreed. A headlight is no guarantee of being seen, but it is a useful tool in any sensible rider's armoury...

BottyBurp wrote:

But, if a driver who doesn't look properly, i.e. just 'glances' either in his mirror or out of his window, the driver stands more chance of being alerted to your presence by a bright light than none at all.

FJSRiDER wrote:

Not at all. Where is your evidence this is so?

See previous posting...

FJSRiDER wrote:

But that isn't the problem with the Highway Code. The problem is telling people they 'may also make you more conspicuous.' The evidence of Risk Compensation theory suggests that people will take more risk if they believe they are 'safer'.

But I believe this to be true. DRL's MAY make you more conspicuous! At no point does it say "it will!"

BottyBurp wrote:

Meaningful enough for you? Or are you going to chuck another insult my way?

FJSRiDER wrote:

As you can see it was not in the slightest bit 'meaningful'. Just the usual ill-considered drivel I often read when idiots who have done no thinking regurgitate the mantra that 'headlights are safer'.

So, just for my clarification then, phrases like

FJSRiDER wrote:

ill-considered drivel

and

FJSRiDER wrote:

idiots who have done no thinking regurgitate the mantra that 'headlights are safer'

is meaningful?

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FJSRiDER

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Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 12:32

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Last edited by FJSRiDER on Wed Oct 04, 2006 14:43, edited 1 time in total.

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FJSRiDER

Post subject:

Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 12:37

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Last edited by FJSRiDER on Wed Oct 04, 2006 14:45, edited 1 time in total.

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BottyBurp

Post subject:

Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 12:45

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FJSRiDER wrote:

BottyBurp wrote:

FJSRiDER wrote:

I didn't insult you. I just asked a question (see the question mark?). The first 'insult' posted was ':loco:' from you wasn't it?

To signify the query I had with your statement

Still the first 'insult' though wasn't it?
It wasn't intended as an ad hominem attack on you, unlike your "pencil" comment

FJSRiDER wrote:

BottyBurp wrote:

FJSRiDER wrote:

However my point is drivers that LOOK can see an unlit motorcycle at night

in the context of moving vehicles, not parked up, which your quote from the HC for Motorcyclists says...

Can you see (moving or stationary) vehicles without lights at night?

You'll find that you can.
So are you now saying that all vehicles should abolish lights at any time of the day or night?

FJSRiDER wrote:

BottyBurp wrote:

I know for a fact, as I see it fairly often, that drivers barrelling down a road will suddenly slow down when they see a cop car/bike in the distance, or indeed, if they see a cop car/bike coming up behind them.

I'd say it's because the cops were highly visible because of bright vehicle colouring and having their lights on.

I'd suggest that has a lot to do with observation and recognition and very little (if at all) to do with 'having lights on'
And I disagree. I believe it's the vehicle's conspicuity that attracts the drivers attention in the first place.

FJSRiDER wrote:

BottyBurp wrote:

I didn't realise I'd have to spell it out for you - I was kinda hoping you'd come to that conclusion yourself, hence my earlier question about soldiers in camouflage gear...

Only once you were challenged have you started to think about the consequences of daytime headlights. So far the reasoning you have given is pretty lame.

I know about motion camouflage, looming etc. All I'm saying, and you haven't successfully countered this, is that I believe having lights on is just another tool in a bikers' armoury.

I do not 'spout' or 'regurgitate' the mantra that lights are the be-all and end-all of making oneself visible to other road users.

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BottyBurp

Post subject:

Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 12:58

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BottyBurp wrote:

FJSRiDER wrote:

BottyBurp wrote:

If drivers don't look properly, which a lot of them don't, then they won't see a bike. Agreed.

So a headlight won't work. Agreed?

No, not agreed. A headlight is no guarantee of being seen, but it is a useful tool in any sensible rider's armoury...

FJSRiDER wrote:

Yes a tool. You don't use a lump hammer for every job.

Agreed.

FJSRiDER wrote:

Just as you shouldn't use daytime headlights all the time.

I don't have the choice - my bike's headlight is wired by the manufacturer to be permanently on.

BottyBurp wrote:

FJSRiDER wrote:

The evidence of Risk Compensation theory suggests that people will take more risk if they believe they are 'safer'.

But I believe this to be true. DRL's MAY make you more conspicuous! At no point does it say "it will!"

FJSRiDER wrote:

I think you know very little about risk compensation. Go and do some research on it before spouting off about something you know nothing.

Actually, I never mentioned 'risk compensation' - you brought it up. So don't accuse me of 'spouting off about something I know nothing about' when I never did!

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FJSRiDER

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Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 13:27

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Q. Are you a stupid fascist with limited reading skills or are you just a retard?

Last edited by FJSRiDER on Wed Oct 04, 2006 14:45, edited 1 time in total.

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BottyBurp

Post subject:

Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 13:36

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FJSRiDER wrote:

You really need to learn to quote properly. Your argument in the post second up is entirly lost in a sea of poorly formatted quotes. Try editing it properly - if you have anything worthwhile to say.

You really need to learn to spell properly...

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BottyBurp

Post subject:

Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 13:46

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FJSRiDER wrote:

BottyBurp wrote:

FJSRiDER wrote:

Just as you shouldn't use daytime headlights all the time.

I don't have the choice - my bike's headlight is wired by the manufacturer to be permanently on.

The point is not that you have some ill-considered manufacturers decision foisted on you but that if you think DRL's really are 'a tool' then it is you who should chose when and where to use them. That is the point of a tool for the job and not a lump hammer for everything.

ill-considered in your opinion...

FJSRiDER wrote:

I did! My very first post on this subject mentioned it. It is my point for considering the rule to be the worst in the Highway Code. That you have comprehensivly ignored it, instead limited your replies to spouting off on that of 'you can see police riders' (as if that proves anything. :roll:

) suggests that, indeed, you know very little about risk compensation. As I said.

I think we're talking about 2 things here...
I think you're saying that because the HC says lights should be on, riders think they're invincible if they do, and I'm saying that riding with lights on is an aid to being seen by car drivers.

Is that correct?

(but only when parked at night, facing in a northerly direction with a light wind from the south-east)

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FJSRiDER

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Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 13:49

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Q. Are you a stupid fascist with limited reading skills or are you just a retard?

Last edited by FJSRiDER on Wed Oct 04, 2006 14:49, edited 1 time in total.

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BottyBurp

Post subject:

Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 13:54

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FJSRiDER wrote:

BottyBurp wrote:

FJSRiDER wrote:

You really need to learn to quote properly. Your argument in the post second up is entirly lost in a sea of poorly formatted quotes. Try editing it properly - if you have anything worthwhile to say.

You really need to learn to spell properly...

That is a pathetic excuse in trying to score points.

And you weren't?

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FJSRiDER

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Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 13:59

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Q. Are you a stupid fascist with limited reading skills or are you just a retard?

Last edited by FJSRiDER on Wed Oct 04, 2006 14:49, edited 1 time in total.

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