Safe Speed Forums

Could anyone explain the red-orange stage on traffic lights. It seems this is limited to UK?

I admit as a cyclist I often use this stage for the indication, but many cars go before the green, maybe it dangerous, and making the ASL worthless.

It still mean STOP

Ist the "get ready" stage as in get into gear und prepare to release the handbrake - und go when light become

GREEN

Und you let the cyclist in the ASL get clear as well

A good driver does not leave them coughing in tyre smoke .. (you have the think of that rubber on those tyres )

Und

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Hmm, shame most drivers don't know that.

Bearing in mind that drivers tend to abuse it and go early, would it not be safer just go from red to green?

If I'm at the front of the line I usually stop a metre or so before the stop line, and start to gently accelerate on red/amber, crossing the line on green. It's a smoother way to pull away and reduces harsh acceleration.

is there something stopping you doing this after the light goes green?

Other than the hords of honking horns and waving fists?

If I can, I try to avoid stopping at all. Its not always possible, but on the approach to a red light, I back right off and try to time it so that I'm just getting to the line as the lights change. It does confuse people behind you that haven't realised that the lights are red though...

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Another advantage is that the lights change twice, which gives you two chances to notice it happening (out of the corner of your eye maybe).

I think the red+amber on one part of the junction is meant to coincide with the amber on the other, so traffic flow is optimised. This means that most junctions which have an all-red phase are deliberately designed to annoy you. Traffic lights (usually?) have nothing to do with safety; no combination of the lights means "you are allowed to drive into the other vehicles".

Nobody is expected to go on red+amber so you get ready to go then and the people behind don't get annoyed. If the lights go straight to green then people not starting to move within a couple of seconds can seem more annoying. Or at least I think that might happen. I don't usually get annoyed at other drivers in this situation, only pointless traffic lights.

To Dorset Police red+amber means go.

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Andrew.

It works though doesn't it.

when you see the simple 'red/green' abroad it all seems pretty rushed and frenetic.

Simple rule. Green means go anything else means don't.

not at all but then I guess that's what I'm used to.

If you follow the procedure you are told during your driving/riding test then you need amber to get ready to go

i.e... put in gear hand brake off check mirrors etc. On a bike. Front brake on, right foot down, clutch in, shift into first, left foot down right foot on brake, do left and right life savers...go!

If you go straight from red to green then the tendancy is to go for the drag racing start...

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Speed camera policy Kills

Ahem - from http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/signs01.htm


Not being pedantic , just the rider ( not a cyclist tho)

GREEN means you may go .


on if the way is clear

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From my notes - also in DSA Book - Driving - The Essential Skills and a MUST HAVE book for all drviers whatever level

Use MSM/PSL routines as you approach the lights. (COAST is a another and more comprehensive approach )

Traffic lights have a set cycle:

As some lurkers clearly are colour blind - I will spell it out

1. RED
2 RED and AMBER
3. GREEN
4. AMBER
5.RED


Now - are we all clear on the cycle? That plain speak enough?

Now what do these colours mean?

From some stuff on the cycling forum on this site over the Stop at Red campaign and people trying to justify the cyclist fined for red light jumping at 5.30 am (when it's starting to get busier) - some people still do not know what the colours mean!

So - I will type it out for all to read!

1. RED. You stop at the white solid line. It means STOP! as in DO NOT PROCEED!

2. RED and AMBER
STOP and WAIT! DO NOT GO UNTIL GREEN shows

3. GREEN GO if the way is clear

(botach.. )

4. AMBER STOP! unless you hav already passed the line or you are so close to it that to stop will cause an accident [/quote]

Approaching a Green Light

Approach a green light as you would any other junction. In other words COAST it - using MSM and PSL - and with COAST - you conver [i] adjusting the speed downwards as you need to be able to stop in the distance you can see to be clear.

NEVER {i}EVER speed up to "beat the lights" Be ready to stop - espcially if those lights have been on GREEN] for a while.

GREEN FILTER ARROW

Green arrow means you can filter n the direction the arrow is pointing - even if the main light is not showing green (Similalry if the filter has Give Way signs and not lights)

You should not enter this lane unless you want to go in that direction and you need to give way to pedestrians who may be crossing ahead as well.

Please not that these rules apply to drivers, bikers, people towing trailers, horse boxes, caravans, lorry drivers, police drivers, ambulance drivers, fire engine drivers AND CYCLISTS!

No exception - and if we cop anyone of the above doing that in our patch - it is our "campaign of the month" every month and we are not very good in the "discretion department" on this one and all get fined if we cop 'em at it!

Not the same as a blip over a limit. Anyone can drift and correct it soon enough. But people have eyes and big bright coloured lights and cross roads - some with a big yellow box - er

[i[ surely not that hard to spot and Murphy's law decrees that light will change to red as you approach and mos definitely if you are "in an 'urry" - so you approach with caution and make sure you can stop safely in the distance you can see to be clear before the white stop lines!

No excuses and I will not listen to "losing momentum" either. Applies to all! And if you cleared up what I've cleared up int eh past at traffic lights - no one would even consider arguing the toss over it either

So .. what do you do if the lights fail? And where should you be stopped if there's an ASL? (Do not reply with "on top of cyclist" either as that is not the right answer! Oops - clue.. tut! )

Quicky (Pub - when all quiet in the Snug) Quiz Question!

If I mention "Special Traffic Lights" - what do I mean and were you would you expect to see them? What might they look like?

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Advanced stop line: stop at the first line unless you can't then stop at the second. All a bit wierd especially on roads around here where you aren't likely to see enough cyclists to warrant having one.

Special traffic lights... Are these the type used at railway crossings, fire stations, airports and cattle crossings with two red flashing lights on top and an amber one on the bottom?
I think with these the usual meanings are:
Amber: Stop unless do so would be unsafe or you can't be bothered waiting for at least 10 times longer than is really needed for the train to cross. Red lights on: Stop unless you want to end up under train, although you probably have time to cross we'll make you stop anyway.

The rest of your advice is perfectly sensible until traffic lights were put in just to annoy drivers. Amber: change down a gear and floor it to get through before it goes red. Red: Stop or at least slow down. Check for traffic light camera/police nearby. If junction is clear and there is no reason at all to be stopped then continue because it's safer than sitting there getting annoyed.
Maybe I should complain to my council for increasing road rage and pollution...

If the lights fail... Enjoy free flowing traffic. Nobody has priority. Be careful and don't drive into anything.

Disclaimer: The above may not be "a good idea".

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Andrew.

An annoying thing is when you are following a car towards the traffic lights which are on green. The car in front SLOWS DOWN significantly in anticipation of the lights turning amber. The nearer you get the slower the car goes. Its as if they are nervous of the lights changing when the are too close.

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Speed camera policy Kills

Since motorways are referred to as special roads, I would presume that these are the red or amber overhead lane control signals

-sounds good in theory, but in practice there will be those drivers who feel that their road/direction is the "major" road, and will drive straight through even when the lights have failed, expecting vehicles on the "minor" road to give way to them.

I like the American system. No RED+YELLOW (they call it *yellow* there, not "amber"). Instead the lights change from red to green. Many cars there are automatics, so the shift into gear and handbrake release is not an issue. Plus they have a nice LONG yellow as the lights turn back to red.

America also has the very effective "4-way Stop" system. At a 4-way stop crossroads, typically a moderately busy intersection that needs more than a 2-way stop but isn't busy enough to warrant traffic lights, all directions must stop at the stop sign. The right of way belongs to the vehicle that has been waiting at the stop line longest, regardless of whether he is turning or going straight ahead. If two cars arrive at rightangles to each other at approximately the same time, the one on the right has the right of way. Works really well, and in my experience, drivers are usually ready to give the benefit of the doubt.

When a set of traffic lights fails, the driving code stipulates that the intersection be treated as a 4-way stop.

Cheers for the replies. Glad to see some people think it should go from red to green.

The Amber stage is a bit short. Surely if to stop won't cause an accident but will mean harsh braking then you should continue.

As for level crossings, the wait is long for a reason. For full barrier crossings the barriers must have been closed and a manually checked over cctv for cars before the signal protecting the crossing can be cleared. In a 4-aspect signalling area (red, yellow, double yellow, green), the crossing must be down and checked before the train driver passes (or even sees if the driver takes no chances) the 3rd signal from the crossing or the train will be dalayed.

Half barrier and no barrier crossings go down as late as possible and the signals don't need to clear. Trouble is too many drivers cannot be trusted, and if a car breaks down on the crossing and not even the starter motor works, people could be in danger.

I don't think it should go from red to green.

It works in America simply because (nearly) all the cars are automatics. The few drivers of manuals get a lot of abuse as they take a second or so to get into gear. This is also the origin of the smallest measurement of time known to man, the New York Second. It is defined as the amount of time between a traffic light changing from red to green and a New York taxi driver sounding his or her horn.


I also think the green->amber->red stage needs a little work too. Currently it is 3 seconds on all roads. I think it should increase on higher limit roads. Has anyone here ever driven on the A580 East Lancashire Road? It's a very long 70mph straight, and if you stick to 70 there are plenty of times where if the lights are to change to amber you will not be able to stop before the stop line, but will not reach the stopline before they go red.

Yes I know that you should slow down a bit, but if the amber times were longer on roads like this, then it wouldn't be necessary, traffic flow would improve as the speed doesn't keep dipping down to 50 and back, people could drive with less worry of being forced into commiting an offence and there would be less rear end impacts as someone decides to deploy the anchors to try and avoid a possible red light camera.

If the amber time varies, how will you EVER know if you have time to stop?

The proper answer is to NEVER use traffic lights on roads with speed limits over 40mph.

This has come up before!

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Paul Smith
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How about a fixed formula, 1 second for every 10mph or the like?

Ok that assumes that the speed limit is set correctly so no-one will be exceeding it, but it'll at least give you a fighting chance in 70s.

I would be very wary of calling for no traffic lights above 40mph. They will find it easier to lower the limit than to re-engineer the junction.