Safe Speed Forums

Liebchen - honking ist that one you do on steep up hills und you are usually outa the saddle

They have another odd term which does not mean the rudey thing it mean in another context.. they "bonk"

I think lieber johnsher und Ed und Eddy Brainio should explain... they had liveliest letters in CW about the "bonk bag"....


My husband had to explain to me in word of one syllable that they were not talking about what I thought they were talking about.. I was thinkin' men.. one track mind ... und all that lycra

Tis a funny old sport with a cooler vocab to describe the skills than borin' ol' football

_________________
Nicht ganz im Lot!
Ich setze mich immer wieder in die Nesseln! Der Mad Doc ist mein Mann! Und ich benutzte seinen PC!

UND OUR SMILEYS? Smile ... und the the world smiles with you.
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Fine me for Safe Speed
(& other good causes..)

Greatest love & Greatest Achievements Require Greatest Risk
But if you lose the driving plan - don't lose the COAST lesson.
Me?
Je ne regrette rien!

At that particular point his path was restricted by a "refuge" a bit ahead in the road which was ill-placed for him as it prevented cars the cars ahead moving over to provide access

But back to the topic.

Too many people who ride bicycles seem to read any newspaper article or any comment which pass comment on red light jumping, pavement riding or the sheer arrogant stupidity of minority of cyclists as "questioning their right to be on the road."

No one disputes that right to be on the road. Drivers only have the privileged right to be on the road because they bothered to take a driving test und satisfied an examiner that they had at least achieved the basics of competence at the time. Thereafter, ist the experience und we should be encouraging progress und constant skills improvement given the changes in in-car technology, civil (road) engineering, und our constantly adapting lifestyles.

But we then into "right" to be on the road"... "right to drive my car faster than speed of sound" und so on...




One has the right to ride a bicycle on the road.. the privileged right to drive car on the road und the right to express a free thought or opinion .. so long as they are mindful of their obligation und bounded duty to not to cause distress, inconsideration, inconvenience, or harm to another who also has the right to be there - whether by right of being a pedestrian, cyclist, horserider or privileged right of being in or on something with a motor engine.

Riding four abreast then .. deliberately.. ist not showing consideration to any other road user.. und riding in the dark on the incorrect bus lane ist also not showing consideration to the oncoming bus driver und his passengers. (und the latter ist akin to driver not showing consideration by driving in bus./cycle lane )

So... ist not "criticising cyclists per se" nor even suggesting for one second they should not be on the road.. but that their right to be there ist the same as any other right in a civilised society...which ist "free right to mobility und freedom of speech but with a duty of care to the rights of other third parties"

I should have gone into politics after all.. reading through this .. sound like something from "Yes Minister"

Ist about negotiation.. sharing these roads..which when a certain person on C+ etc goes off on one about "roads being safer for cyclists in Europe"... there ist a biggy big difference. Those cyclists are sharing the roads without the aggression, the CM nonsense, .. negotiating with the drivers und vice versa.

Probably as well .. most of those drivers ride bikes too... Europeans do ride more in general.

But back to that Brit disease then.. lack of basic manners, apathy und a bludgeoning of their responsible adult skills by THEM with the Pee-cee nonsense

Ist difficult.. I think I get the lingo lost a bit.. I am the "weakest link" in the family language wise..

_________________
Nicht ganz im Lot!
Ich setze mich immer wieder in die Nesseln! Der Mad Doc ist mein Mann! Und ich benutzte seinen PC!

UND OUR SMILEYS? Smile ... und the the world smiles with you.
Smiley guy seen when you read
Fine me for Safe Speed
(& other good causes..)

Greatest love & Greatest Achievements Require Greatest Risk
But if you lose the driving plan - don't lose the COAST lesson.
Me?
Je ne regrette rien!

there's no disputing that but if there's not enough room to overtake 4 cyclists abreast then, let's face it, there's not enough room to SAFELY overtake 2 abreast. However in this country people will almost certainly be overtaking them anyway leaving about 1/2" between themselves and their victim.
I know that if I don't actively block an overtake then it will happen, no matter how dangerous, or pointless, it may be.


while we're at it, let's not forget rule 139

really? I think a lot of people seem to forget it - how many times have you heard the "get off the road - you don't pay any 'road tax' " refrain?

In case I'm not being clear, I realise that and please see the highway code image above for the reasons for my initial comment in this thread.
How often do you see anybody leaving that sort of room for a cyclist?
How often do YOU, dear forum members, leave that sort of room for a cyclist?

It's really not very good is it? I recall being vaguely aware that it was pretty crap, but if you ask me it's part of the problem.

I'd happily sail past a slow moving car with a three foot gap on occasion - but a three foot gap to a horse is madness, and a 3 foot gap to a cyclist is definitely risky.

_________________
Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

I always thought that what it meant was, assume that the left hand edge of the cyclist is actually the left hand edge of a car, then overtake the invisible car.

If it's just the same gap as you would leave a car then that's madness. Does that mean that if the cyclist is waiting to turn right, you only have to give them 2 inches so long as you're going slowly.

I usually wear my Pistonheads polo shirt und I embroidered COAST und support the safest speed brigade all over it too! I wear this when I go to any even where I may meet someone who might post to C+ so that I might see them go a funny shade of purple

But ... am known locally for my love of all things with a throaty engine sound.. Und they also know I ride my bicycle too. have the sporty ones und the Mumsy one with the cute little wicker basket on the front.

I do not think they'd dare tell me I did not pay me road tax around here. though. Had it from a couple of ruddy tourists.. but then their jaws dropped when they later saw me emerging from the driveway in the wildycatmobile Purrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!

_________________
Nicht ganz im Lot!
Ich setze mich immer wieder in die Nesseln! Der Mad Doc ist mein Mann! Und ich benutzte seinen PC!

UND OUR SMILEYS? Smile ... und the the world smiles with you.
Smiley guy seen when you read
Fine me for Safe Speed
(& other good causes..)

Greatest love & Greatest Achievements Require Greatest Risk
But if you lose the driving plan - don't lose the COAST lesson.
Me?
Je ne regrette rien!

COAST means you look out for the over shoulder looks.. strong wind affecting a rider, inexperienced rider und you can usually tell

Good practice dictate.. you stay behind until safe to pass und rule of thunb ist at least one/half passenger door room space und a margin more if safe und practicable.

Horses? You pass always slowly und carefully whatever the wheels.. these are sensitive beasties und if they feel startled .. they can simply bolt. My sister ist very experienced on a horse .. but even she had a problem controlling that brute she owns once. Very nearly threw her.. und she said it was the worst experience of her life to date this ist an ex -racer ... she likes speedy thrills but not on an 'oss! She said once it got over the jumpy hind leg - front legs gesticulating tantrum und aggrieved whinnyings .. it tried to take off at speed with her on it.. She said it took a lot of energy on the reins und knee und heel pressures und some soothing words (when she felt anything but calm) to bring back to control. Was a five minute blat .. but that animal covered some distance at speed and she reckoned her longest moments as she really thought it would go pear shaped there at the time.

So .. please pass a horse carefully und a cyclist carefully too. Und be aware that slipstream can destabilise anything on two wheelies as well Ist why you need to give a decentish margin of good old SPACE ( per COAST)

You know droppings, mud, smell ofcut grass, hedges, manure.. all tell tale signs of potential hazard ahead

_________________
Nicht ganz im Lot!
Ich setze mich immer wieder in die Nesseln! Der Mad Doc ist mein Mann! Und ich benutzte seinen PC!

UND OUR SMILEYS? Smile ... und the the world smiles with you.
Smiley guy seen when you read
Fine me for Safe Speed
(& other good causes..)

Greatest love & Greatest Achievements Require Greatest Risk
But if you lose the driving plan - don't lose the COAST lesson.
Me?
Je ne regrette rien!

I ALWAYS leave that much room for a cyclist; I conciously treat them as a car.

Though if I thought they were trying to 'block' me for some reason I might be less inclined to be so thoughtful.

Personally, if I'd had kids with me and the hill was as steep as has been suggested, then I'm afraid we'd have been walking up in the interests of safety.

Is that SO hard?

It is only hard when one is ascerting their "RIGHT" to be on the road and I say that about pig-headed cyclists as much as I do pig-headed motorists.

I've said it before and no doubt i'll say it again. Some cyclists bring problems upon themselves. I can honestly say that I haven't experienced many of the problems that Johnsher has presented; in fact I find his consistant defence of what I as a rider believe to be downright dangerous riding, to be rather puzzling and disturbing. I find that 99% of drivers give me plenty of room and I acknowledge those that wait patiently behind with a quick wave, all very nice and courteous which other vehicle drivers appreciate, this is especially noticed when they eventually do overtake in that they over exagerate the room they give you as a means of appreciation.

If traffic is building up behind me, then I pull in and let them pass, it takes a seconds out of an hour and a half daily journey, everyone's a winner. I have never ridden adjacent to another rider, again, I feel no need to ascert myself nor make a point.

I do however say this to those selfish pig-headed imbeciles that feel they have to continually make a point. Think about your actions, you may be within the law but your actions have an effect on others. Take the lead and show a bit of courtesy and I can assure you it will be returned in droves.

but then you don't actually ride in London, do you?

No I don't , that's fair comment but where does it indicate that we were discussing London in particular? I do drive in London though and quite simply, London is unique in every sense.

Experiences in London

1. Missed first half of West End Show when taxi was held up by very selfish CM w:censored:rs

2. Was on pavement and had to jump away from on-coming cyclist.

3. Driving in London. Stopped at traffic lights. Some cyclist called me a rude name because I was in my Jag at the time... (Er - I had paid a congestion charge for this dubious privilege of being called rude names whilst I obeyed the law and the cyclist blatantly disobeyed it. Had he been run over.. I would have been questioning my ethics at that second.)
Comment was at the choice of car...which happened to be filled with four of my children at the time. Wildy had the rest and the fosters.

4. Driving in London.. taxi came down the wrong way on one way.. tailgated by cyclists. For one horrid moment - I thought I'd made the mistake .. only drivers were in front of and behind me in a similar state of fear.

5. Walking in London .. in the park. Cyclists do not ring bells and if you do not move - they'd mow you down for sure.

6. Ask anyone for directions in London and they ignore you. If you have a Northern burr in your accent - forget any sign of good manners. On the other hand.. sexy Swiss Dietrich type voice with a lot of "Liebchen" "ist" "und".. and my wife gets a friendly smile and a lot of "madams", her directions and a quiz on her origins.

Experiences in Manchester

7. Missed the cocktails bit of a "professional do" because of some miltantly selfish W:censored:rs on a CM

8. Cyclist rode wrong way down a one way and did not even cede his way from oncoming traffic who, fortunately for him, stopped.

9. Gave first aid after cyclist rode into a car which had turned left into a road .. and he was riding on the white line "as he wished to turn right at the crossroads" He had never heard of John Franklin nor primary position either.... Waited with cyclist and car driver till ambulance arrived as this was "procedure."

10. Kamizaze cyclist charged across a road without even looking in any directions. How the hell the lorry missed him remains life's little mystery.

Experience in Cumbria

11. Walking on pavement. Approaching gas works on pavement. Cyclist comes up from behind.. on pavement .. does not ease up and more or less pushes me into the trench. Nasty deep cut to leg.. required stitches and could have been nasty as near an artery. I could have bled to death there. Ruined a fairly nice tailored pair of trousers too. (Upside .. my wife danced attendance on me)

12. Cyclists on the Fells do not give way to horses or walkers at all. You see "they are on holiday and no one else matters."

er.. you don't ride or drive in the rest of the country either, John!

Politeness begets politeness .. I think I find most are polite to me when I ride and drive on the whole. Do not get rude gestures. Mostly thumb ups and waves of thanks.

But let's get this straight.. loads of numpty drivers around. Those same numpties are numpties when on a bicycle and add to this the inconsiderate muppets who think they are "competent cyclists" and who are really complacently dangerous oafs on two wheels.

Such people are those who purport to ride bikes - ride up steep mountain passes and yet spend 24/7 on internet sites posting ad hominem and nasty attacks on persons they happen to disagree with.

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hahmmmm; we couldn't possibly be thinking of the same forum could we? The members of which, until recently, thought that COAST was a figment of the imagination

not sure exactly what your point is as I've never denied that there are crap cyclists out there - in fact if you've actually bothered to read anything in the cycling forum you'll know I'm the first to complain about them - red light runners being the ones I'd really like to coathanger.



so please tell me how you can be polite to someone on a suburban road who's
(a) decided to tailgate you you're delaying him/her for .2s while negotiating some ridiculous street furniture
(b) forced his/her way past you with 1" to spare rather than being delayed for .2s especially, but not necessarily, while negotiating same
(c) decided you're invisible and turned left across you
(d) decided you're invisible and driven straight at you
because I sure as hell want to find out before I'm killed by one of them.

Do not get me started on another full blown rant about RLJers, John. BC seems to paste me into word and do a word count..

My point is that there are a lot of numpties throughout the country. and they ride bikes.. and some also drive cars. I seem to meet an even number of each and my wife and our vast number of relatives likewise.

I cannot help that I have 8 brothers and sisters and Wildy has personal family of siblings and cousins amounting to 28 plus spouses I will admit that there are positives and negatives when one belongs to a large family like this .. but I do like my family and the one I married into. You have to accept my word that all are very particular and very much abiding by common sense. The only law they think they break amount to the odd 3 mph above the speed limit

I also admit to blood being thicker than water as well ... My loyalties are to me and mine first. Let's put it that way.





Two wrongs never make a "right" John.

We do have some odd strategies and we will make a scam "work" by engineering a ping. if we can. We have a fave one in Lancs. We think we are responsible for its "speeding lucrativeness" - but when it pings.. it's really pinging a dangerous tailgater if we were around

If being tailgated though.. we just decide that we'd rather not have the hassle and when we can.. we let him just pass us. I have a family and so does Wildy. We made a family pledge that we would never ever compromise safety and place the family through another black hole.

COAST always helps though. John Franklin himself spells this out on page 51 to 55 of his main work

_________________
If you want to get to heaven - you have to raise a little hell!

Smilies are contagious
They are just like the flu
We use our smilies on YOU today
Now Good Causes are smiling too!

KEEP SMILING
It makes folk wonder just what you REALLY got up to last night!

Smily to penny.. penny to pound
safespeed prospers-smiles all round! !
But the real message? SMILE.. GO ON ! DO IT! and the world will smile with you!
Enjoy life! You only have the one bite at it.