Safe Speed Forums

I got over my boy racing days on a motorbike. Losing a finger, several expensive machines, and one friend, admitidly didnt slow me down, but you grow up and get over childhood. At least some of us do.

The police didnt wake up one morning and decide to really irritate people by limiting the speed allowed on the road. They learned by clearing the mess, that the faster people drive the worse the accident.

It may seem a simple eqasion (speed kills) , but reading this board not many can get there head around the concept.

The diference between 30mph and 40mph is the difference between complete recovery and life in a wheel chair.

The difference between 40mph and 50mph is the difference between life and death.

And at 70mph there isnt even a whole body to bury.

What does it take for some people to grow up?

You need to read a great deal more of the information here before you pass such crass judgements.

I believe that over 7,000 people are dead because we have followed a dangerously ill founded road safety policy. We're working on putting that right and restoring the former policies and trends.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Yes as a matter of fact I have. It was in a 30 limit and he hit a tree killing himself and one of his passengers. I was at the scene before the police. Something I will never forget.

I turned out the guy was drunk.......So tell me, how would a camera have saved his life.

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Speed camera policy Kills

Doesn't it depend what hits what, not some fixed Mph value above the limit?
Going off what you've just posted, you should make the national speed limit 50mph, as it's certain death above that.
But then, what about a head-on collision? - for the closing speed to be 50mph, both cars would only be doing 25mph, so you'd have to make the national speed limit 25mph.
That way no-one would ever die on the roads, a it's the SPEED that KILLS, (and not the quality of driving, diesel spills etc)



Oh and my friend was hurt, and her car written-off in a car-crash the other day, and speed was not a factor (well apart from the fact both cars were moving ).
Also, I don't cruise at 90mph on motorways as it's not possible to keep a safe braking distance, with the sheer volume of traffic on the roads I have the pleasure of driving on.

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Every car needs a H.U.D. (especially now).

The social stigma of drink driving has saved many lives. Yet speeders have no shame.

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I stole this .sig

"Speed Kills"

Most of those posting here know what happened to my wife. She was hit at speed whilst stationary in a motorway jam. Driver was taken fatally ill and hit the throttle. He hit her at a high speed. She suffered multiple injuries at the time - but made a full recovery. Yes - we were lucky!

A policeman in an Astra was hit at similar speed by an Astra. The yob in stolen car was able to run off after the impact according the the news article (was on PH site ca January - in fact - traceable because that is date my wife joined that site as this was the story which prompted her to post a reply in first place.). Cop was back at work not long afterwards.

So .... both cases - extraordinarily lucky....

Another relative (and pal) of ours was killed at a very low speed - when an articulated truck with dodgy brakes ploughed through a central reserve and hit him head on.

Speed and weight of vehicle - contributory factor in outcome. My Moggie Thousand is lot heavier and less pedestrian friendly than my Jag. Its braking capacity is good - but on experiment on track with Moggie v Stag v Jag v Mini (traditional and modern) v 1950s Merc v 4 month old Merc... - you notice a marked difference and a marked difference in capabilities of all these very different cars. Thinking distance - we discovered - is unchanged. (Lot of us were playing... ) Handling and control - we found different. The modern cars (Jag, Merc, Vectra, Focus, Mondeo , Volvo, new Mini) performed well - ABS etc kicked in and actual stopping distances were comparable - all better than those quoted in HC - but would say not significant enough to get too excited about. The old cars (Moggie, Stag, old Jag, old Cavalier, old Mini Cooper S, Herald ) performed according to HC stopping times - some stopping distances did exceed the rule of thumb - but suspect the car in question has requires new pads. The Trabant in this collection - just did not stop at all

Actual causes of a crash: driver inattention, lack of what my family as collective call COAST, impairment through drink, drugs, illness, fatigue, poor eyesight, inattention....combined lead to inappropriate speed and driving style accodrding to the conditions.

Remedy by prats: Zero training, zero advert campaigns promoting good practice, little incentive given to encourage and spur people on to IAM etc... but a speed camera.

Oh - hypothermia kills - lots of punters will be heading up Pendle Hill according to John Craven on "Countryfile" this morning.

And the safety measures being looked at by LanCASH£re police per the programme?

Not one mention about "wrap up warm and take flask of hot liquid - such as soup or coffee"

BUT .......


We will be enforcing a 30 mph speed limit ........


Meantime - chez Mad Moggie household .... traditional bobbing for apples and playing "snapdragon" in front of nice warm fire....telling ghosty stories about speed cameras ....

Drink driving is on the increase in case you hadn't noticed. so where is the stigma...

Also drink driving accounts for three times as many deaths.

Back to the drawing board basingwerk...

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Speed camera policy Kills

And of course it's only a minority of drivers who drink and drive. There's a vast majority who exceed speed limits from time to time.

Let's make speed cameras as unacceptable as drink driving

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

How bout

Make speeding as unacceptable as drunk driving. It kills as many. They were drunk AND going tooo fast dont forget.

Everyone keeps trying to excuse flying around at killer speed. It always sounds a little naff though.

My car has excellent brakes, great tires, abs...............

Whats it got to cushion it from an imovable object? Big bile of matresses at the front maybe?

Last week on the A12, deer killed 3 in a Merc SUV thing, went past the wreck myself, tore the roof off, tore the passengers out of there seats 1 kid 13. They wernt doing 30mph You will never convince me.

Ok so how does a camera catch a drunk driver....remember drink driving is on the increase.

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Speed camera policy Kills

No it doesn't. Nowhere even close.

Quote a source - a real source.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

A drunk, drugged, tired or ill driver is not going to judge situation properly - no matter what speed they actually travel at. One driver had heart attack in our patch, mounted pavement and injured a small child walking ahead of his parents. Not a great speed either ...

Drunk and drugged drivers - reactions are impaired, and they tend to be over confident of their abilities - and if you peruse this site - you will find that both the Mad Doc, his wife (under the Mad Lad's profile ) and myself have already posted a significant amount of background material on this very subject - and it is too late to write you a repeat essay - you read the forum properly One of the other doctors in this family spelled out dangers of drugs in the Nonny forum as she has not signed up to this forum - so take a look see...


Each crash I have personally thrown up at ....after investigations - each was found to have some other cause. All accidents are going to be messy - because people will always be travelling at speed greater than zero.

Oddly - accidents involving drunks and drugs - mix of drunken pedestrians staggering in front of cars, drunken cyclists and drivers - some of whom misjudged a corner becuase of drink, some collided with an object (may have seen more than one of them ) and speed was ironically legal or not too far above legal....

High speed crashes .... where speed is definite death causal factor and thus messy .... boy racers,bikers... and - yes - impaired by something or other...

All collisions - 95% human error - failure to concentrate in road and road conditions, observe the situation ahead, anticipate a hazard, not use mirrors and misjudge space and distance and - - not adequate allow time for their journey....



Too many fail to check POWER - R = RUBBER = TYRES and WIPERS.

Too many do not service cars properly - and have not been taught how to use ABS properly. You would be amazed at how many questioned after a skid cannot describe to me how to use ABS... We explain .... of course ... and give advice for future ....

Again - accident down to human error - of not being responsible enough to maintain their vehicle - and if stopped in my patch - turn from reasonable chap into draconian plod within 0.5 seconds! Bit more reasonable about an overspeed blip - providing a bip and providing safe...

Test is due to include basic car knowledge as part of multiple choice theory....



You would be amazed at how much damage a deer or horse can do at very low speed. I can well believe the car was travelling at 30 mph or below and damage was as you describe - for simple reason that I have cleared up messes and investigated such crunches.

If we are to avoid all injuries and crashes vehicles would have to be travelling at 0 MPH but just because someone travels at 70MPH or 30MPH doesn't make their journey free of risks.

Andrew

As somebody who drove betrwen 50-80000 miles annually with my old job (for 10 years or so), I can honestly say that I have never witnessed a motorway pile-up when conditions have been such that some or most of the cars have been exceeding the speed limit.

The pile-ups I have witnessed have happened when there has been a lot of traffic on the road, travelling 50-65 mph on a busy motorway (the kind of conditions where if you leave a safe distance between you and the vehicle in front then one or two other vehicles pull into it!). Very often this has been exacerbated by the stop-start conditions caused by shear weight of traffic.

I've no doubt that occasionally somebody loses control at a faster speed, but I have yet to see this.

And no, before you ask, I have an accident-free record (except when it's been the other driver's fault) and a clean license.

Is the "post a sorce rule" for everyone? Because there are a few people making some interesting claims, id love to see where they get their information.

I am a medic - get my information from A&E colleagues and various medical publications. Also - according to my returns - come across as super-doc - yet my actual death rate is unchanged.....hence I have more faith in Saddam being returned to power...and Bin Laden being brought to justice .....

Also am ex-member of BRAKE! Support their work regarding impaired drivers and dodgy garages.

BUT

Cannot support a policy which sees a speed camera as sole way of improving road safety.

Incidentally "Manchester Evening News" carries short snip about a woman who emerged unscathed after her car rolled and landed upside down on M62 after being clipped by some numpty on a bad overtake at .... 70mph.

Bless her ( and she is a woman vicar) ....

she was more concerned over the people being delayed after motorway was closed to sort her out.

What a lovely and inspiring lady.... It was a pleasure to read this in tonight's "Manchester rag"

Yes - she was very lucky.... of course.

But ... again a human error caused by a poor - but legal speed - overtake caused the accident.....


Human error causes 95% of all accidents - and that is supported by GMP police who have placed this on the back of a bus.... which I saw for myself on a drive into Manchester......just recently.

There's no rule. But there are a lot of dodgy statistics around and it's fair to ask where an item of data comes from.

Are you going to answer the question? You said: "Make speeding as unacceptable as drunk driving. It kills as many."

Which of course is utter rubbish. So go on - quote your source.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

I base my information on what I see daily....

Also - the police own web sites and stats (available for all to see) make some interesting reading - especially when you compare to other sources.

Indeed one chap shot an own goal when he posted comparison of Durham v Lancs..... against the census returns....

By the way - Lancs' site not only draws attention to fact that its death rate increased 2002/2003 - they also acknowledge the increased number of drink driving cases - and those are the ones they actually caught.... Hard cores exist - too many drive whilst disqualified for drink as well. Lot of repeat offenders..... how does camera catch them? Our lads could do better as well to be brutally honest.. And our record is good by comparison to others

I do not need to post sources as such - all you need to do is look on official websites, compare, do your sums - and bingo....


I am sure many of your posts - including your name are tongue in cheek...

Just a minute - isn't 70mph a legal speed for a car on a motorway or dual carriageway?

Trains go a lot faster you know - imagine a cow straying on the line in front of a 140mph express - a derailment would cause carnage! But hold on - trains have a superb safety record ... and so do motorways - and many if not most car drivers break the speed limit on the motorway at one time or another!

Exactly!

Every form of transport is going faster and faster like planes, trains but not automobiles! Should motorways not be limitless?

I don't think it would make any difference really to many drivers speed as most (unknowingly) are under the influence of the 85th percentile rule.


Andrew