Safe Speed Forums

Hi this is my first message on here and i know some may not like my post but hear goes.
I work in the driver training industry mainly training company drivers and teaching advanced driver courses. The main problem i come across when teaching clients is speeding and even worse is the attitude to it.

Why do drivers feel that breaking the law by speeding is ok?

Why do drivers complain that speed cameras are only there to make money? Speed cameras only make money if you speed, simple eh.

When talking to drivers about this, one of the answers i get is "Well cars are safe at speeds above the limit" The answer i usually give is yes they are but are you.

I'd be interested to hear what you have to say.

What do you say when someone replies "Yes, I am" ? What about the 10's of millions of people who do exceed the posted speed limit on a daily basis and don't die immediately as a result... the fact that over 50% of people drive faster than posted speed limits suggests that the answer to your response of "yes they are but are you?" will almost always be yes.

As someone who supposedly teaches advanced driving you should surely realise that individuals are capable of driving safely at speeds above posted limits more often than not. You should surely also realise that enforcing speed limits isn't really advanced driver training at all, you're just trying to make everyone robots with a set of rules to apply instead of managing their own ability.

As for why do people 'speed'... it's because it's just common sense to get to someone as fast as you can in a safe manner. On most roads the posted limits can be exceeded more often than not whilst not endangering yourself or anyone around, and therefore it will always be human nature to do so. If you can get somewhere in 10 minutes instead of 15 without endangering anyone at all, without straining yourself more-so physically then it makes sense to do it.

the fact is that yes, most people are capable of driving over the speed limit, that is until something unexpected happens and they are going so fast that they can't stop in time.

Question why do you need to speed.

You seem to be making this rather personal towards users of this forum. How do you know I need to speed?

The vast majority of drivers at some time exceed speed limits. Why do you believe they do this?

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

Why do we need to go needlessly slow?

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

If peted has been reading the forum, as it would seem from his post, why does he think that anyone here needs to speed? Has he not got the message we are presenting?

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Prepare to be Judged

Perhaps the wording should be "Why do you need to exceed a posted speed limit"......The use of the term 'speed' in unqualified form raises doubt as to your meaning pedants love vague references.

Sorry PeterE i did'nt mean to be personal i meant drivers in general not just members of this forum.
I'm just interested to hear the replies

Well in that case, they're obviously driving at an inappropriate speed for the conditions, regardless of what the speed limit may be. Could be travelling past a school at 29mph (perfectly legal) when a kid runs out. The driver is still travelling at an inappropriate speed. So perhaps it boils down to better driver education? And you're in the perfect position to help with this! Encourage better use of COAST etc...

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Pecunia Prius Equitas et Salus

Bottyburp wrote
Well in that case, they're obviously driving at an inappropriate speed for the conditions, regardless of what the speed limit may be. Could be travelling past a school at 29mph (perfectly legal) when a kid runs out. The driver is still travelling at an inappropriate speed. So perhaps it boils down to better driver education? And you're in the perfect position to help with this! Encourage better use of COAST etc...


Thats why i posted this topic as i'm interested to hear your opinions so i can be more help when training people

So you accept people regularly do and can exceed the posted limits more than 99% of the time. Very very rarely something will happen whilst someone is travelling above the speed limit... As an advanced driving instructor I'd really expect you to be more aware of other factors which would result in a crash whilst someone is travelling above the speed limit? It's more often than not the case that the crash occurs because the individual didn't have enough skill to avoid the incident, or the incident was unavoidable. Though there is no need to go into this as if you read through the site there is plenty of information on why you shouldn't so immediately assume (especially as an advanced driving instructor) that it's because they are going fast they "can't stop in time".


Why do people 'speed' - 1) because limits are often too slow 2) because it's common sense to get somewhere in a short amount of time when possible to do so safely rather than dick about taking all day due to inappropriately low speed limits



A question to you now, which I ask simply because of your seeming stance against exceeding speed limits

2 drivers are travelling along the M25 at 2pm, the road is relatively busy but free flowing. Traffic in lane 4 is moving at approx 80, lane 3 70, lanes 1 and 2 at about 60-70 (lorrys and slower drivers). Driver 1 is in Lane 4 at 80mph, Driver 2 is travelling in Lane 1 at 55mph. Who is putting more lives at risk in your mind? Please bear in mind the speed of the other traffic.

Fisrt of all, welcome.

I'll start by saying this. I don't have a clock in the car and I don't wear a watch. I have no means what so ever of telling the time when I'm driving (I rarely even listen to the radio). I ensure that I will be on time by planning my journey and setting off early enough so that I know I will not be late unless something holds me up severely along the way.

I do exceed posted limits. This is NOT because I wish to reach my destination faster, but because I wish to drive at a comfortable speed where I feel relaxed, in control, focussed and safe.

peted. You say "that is until something unexpected happens and they are going so fast that they can't stop in time". Surely one of the fundementals of any driving training, especially advanced training, is to never exceed a speed at which you can stop safely on your side of the road in the distance you know to be clear? I know plenty of roads where this speed is BELOW the limit. However if I can travel in excess of the limit and still maintain full vehicle control and be able to stop safely then when the 'unexpected' happens I will be in no worse a position to deal with it than had I been driving at or below the limit.

I think you need to understand the difference between exceeding the limit (something which this site doesn't demonise) and driving excessively fast (which this site condemns). No one here will advocate driving at a dangerously high speed under any circumstanecs.

Unless you are concentrating on your speedo excessively it is virtually impossible to mainain your speed to within 1mph. Gradient, engine characterists (turbo pressurisation for example) and a mirriad other things could cause your speed to gradually increase over time. Its not as simple as driving on the wrong side of the road or running a red light.

I don't 'feel the need to speed', I feel the need to be relaxed and focussed and aware of my surroundings. My numerical speed is irrelevant to this so long as I know how long it will take me to stop in an emergency.

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Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.

i dont believe i said i have a strange stance against speed limits.

In answer to your question i assume you'll say the slower driver is more dangerous that the faster one . Why?

Why? This was for you to answer, not for me.

I'd compare Driver 2 to someone driving at 90mph in lane 4, if that helps.

Experienced drivers speed because their essential subconscious risk assessment process tells them that a speed above the speed limit is 'best suited' to the prevailing conditions.

It's really rather bizarre that 'the authorities' don't recognise that routine speeding is simply the opposite side of the vital 'recognise hazards and slow down when necessary' behaviour that is the essence of safe driving.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Since you claim to teach advanced driving you should know that speed limits and the speedo tell you nothing about what is a safe speed in any given circumstance. The speed limit will not help you if you should have been doing 15mph when the limit was 60mph but you are on a single track country road. Doing 90 on a dry empty motorway is unlikely to be any more dangerous than doing 70.

Get over your obsession with speed limits and teach your pupils to look at the road and adjust their speed accordingly. They will be much safer drivers.

How will you be more help to people when you're training? Do you believe that it's dangerous to travel at 31mph in a 30mph?

And it was also very remiss of me not to welcome you!

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Pecunia Prius Equitas et Salus

I think that the topic of this thread is very misleading, and exactly the misconception that the pro camera nutters have.

It assumes that everyone who speeds has done so deliberatley, which is not the case. I would suggest that in camera detected offences, the speeding being deliberate accounts for less than 10%.

Perhaps the question should be, why do so many people speed. Answers will be things like, poor road design, inappropriately low speed limit, poor signage, car accelerating down a hill, failed to notice speed signs etc, etc.

Why is speeding the main problem you have. Excess speed is the cause of ~12% of accidents of which about half will be exceeding the posted limit. Why isn't your prority somewhere in the other 94% of accidents?

Firstly most speed limits are set wrong. Most people can drive down most roads in a calm civilised manor safely at a speed higher than the posted limit. And as said in earlier posts most people do.

If I give you a repetitive task you will find the optimum speed and layout for that job. If I made you do it slowly you would end up stressed.

As your stress levels raise your attention to the task would drift.

I live on a 30 limit. Most people drive it at 40-45. They are not a problem. It is the ones that try to push you along the road or the noisy cars that are the problem. The only accident I can recall was a 3x the limit drink driver.

I keep seeing reports of HGV's that have run into queues of traffic. Reading papers, texting. The same with train drivers. Limiting them to 56mph does nothing for driver engagement.

The other thing that makes me chuckle is round tesco's car park... 5mph.
I drive into the car park at a very gentle 12mph wondering how ridiculous 5mph was. so I tried it. madness!

I wonder if the people who set speed limits are actually to frail to drive?
I want all councilors and highways engineers to have their cars limited to the speed limit.

Maybe I am too intelligent? I need to be engaged in driving to drive safely. I am not a good driver through those horrendous specs cameras. I miss all the signs. I could not do your job. sitting as a passenger all day watching some one cock-up a simple parking task would drive me mad. We are all different.

To be engaged on the task humans need to optimise speed & risk. Most people set the risk to "almost never" some people have it set to "might not happen" other people just aren't looking where they are going.

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Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code