Safe Speed Forums

Does anyone know if the variable speed limits are enforced on the M25 between M3 exit to M25 and junction 16 ?

Sat in traffic for ages this afternoon and looked around at them an didnt notice any flashes in the box unless they dont need them anymore.

Are the cameras still there and working? had a quick search on here and theres no one being prosecuted recently (unless ive search wrong thing)

I think there is currently only one gantry with gatsos in them along that stretch (clockwise and anti-clockwise), I don't know if the cameras are live.

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

The cameras move from gantry to gantry. There's a little trapdoor over the hardshoulder, and some lifting gear to raise them from the back of the van to the gantry. Then the installer slides them along rails and puts them in place.

I've sat and watched them being put in place when stuck in traffic during the T5 roadworks.

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COAST Not just somewhere to keep a beach.

A young loner on a crusade to champion the cause of the innocent, the helpless, the powerless, in a world of criminals who operate above the law.

And they're only allowed one camera per gantry anyway.

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Andrew.

Really? Not one per lane? They're usually in fours, would that mean the other 3 must be dummies?

If we are talking about "The Serco Speed Enforcement System Type 1with either the Techspan Systems Controlled Motorway Indicator Type 450EE or the Securité et Signalisation (SES) Controlled Motorway Indicator Type 450EE [M25 controlled motorway project]" then the type approval document I read, although it was a long time ago, specified that they must be used singly on a gantry.
I can't find it at the moment, they keep moving them and the home office web site search doesn't work very well.

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Andrew.

There's a bunch of type approvals here, but I don't see anything referring to the systems you mention...

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Chris

I've noticed that too, it makes it impossible to find linked documents over time; could it be a cunning ploy?

Found this lengthy document from 2004 on the ACPO site - page 94 states (my bold):

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Chris

Nor can I. I did hear rumours that they replaced the M25 system with "digital cameras" or some media nonsense trying to make out that having a digital camera somehow makes the entire system better. Maybe they replaced the M25 system with HADECS?
I don't know. That is a pure guess.
I didn't make that Serco name up though, and I remember the phrase "singly on a gantry".

Basically having more than one radio (radar) transmitter operating that close together and on the same frequency is a bad idea.

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Andrew.

Trouble with that site (and others like it) is that you have to be able to work out what's true and what's made up. They even contradict themselves on that page! "It has the same box on top of the pole as a normal Gatso" - "It is housed in a bigger than standard box to accommodate the extra hardware".
The photo even shows that it isn't the same box.

So SOME of what is on that site is true.

"The camera system is capable of taking single photographs of approaching vehicles" BS. The camera is rear-facing.

I believe the bulb checking (none missing and no extra) is as described. Although I believe it happens more often than they suggest.

"On live gantries they have mounted one radar per lane, but only one camera per gantry which is swapped from lane to lane periodically." I don't think so. Why bother with the radar if there's no camera to connect it to?

When I have been on the M25 I have only ever seen one device per lane, and it has always been in the outside lane. The easiest way to tell is by looking for the flash. It's either dark (empty) or light (full!).

"It can distinguish vehicles travelling as close as ½ metre apart at about 90mph."
Any closer and the camera doesn't pick up the numberplate?

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Andrew.

Indeed, there are several Google hits for "Serco Speed Enforcement System Type 1", but nothing (that I could find in a quick trawl) more recent than January 2006. As for the one per gantry thing, the second of my earlier posts shows your memory to be in full working order

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Chris

Serco is a company. When my firm was in to display systems we lost a few bids to them (and won a few )

I've seen them flash .(luckily not at me )

But there only seems to be one gantry each direction and They always seem to be north of the M4.

FWIW, when I drive through that part of the M25, my RoadAngelPlus sings like a canary, suggesting that these cameras are indeed active. I make sure I don't exceed 70, even if the temporary speed limit is not active. Still, the traffic is usually so heavy through there that it's often not possible to exceed 70 anyway.

Some interesting information here about the cameras... though does anyone actually know anyone thats been done by the cameras lately?

I know in the past there were quite a few people being flashed, but ive not heard of anyone getting done lately

This description of the mechanism alone implies that it may be impossible to install more than one camera per gantry, and the latter comment about them normally being in the outside lane makes sense in terms of the preponderance of speeding drivers in each lane.

I believe the M25 goes between counties, and different counties (or is that police forces?) run their bit differently.

If the road angel is a GPS detector it won't be able to detect the presence of the cameras, only the boxes. If it has a radar detector in too it'll tell you if there's an active one nearby.
I went on a bit of the M25 with a radar detector once and there was a correlation between detected signals and a flash being visible in the box on the same or other side of the road.

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Andrew.

I heard a rumor that they had no way of proving the variable limit was in force at the time you were zapped. Apparently someone argued that the sign in his/her lane was busted and they had no way of proving otherwise.

dunno if its true, but I think there is only on camera working by the A3 and one by the M3.

There was also a case thrown out when the CPS could not demonstrate why a 50 was in force on a near empty road.

again all rumoured