October 8th 2007
These notes were made by Anton from the public gallery at court room 7.
They are as accurate as & true I could make them. Unless in Quotes marks they may not be the exact words but always true in context. (Please note I am a diagnosed dyslexic apology for typos)
People present
District Judge Gillibrand (dj)
Prosecuting solicitor (name unknown) (pros)
Lead Defending solicitor: Barry Culshaw (Blake lapthorn) (bc)
Expert signing witness Richard Bentley (assisted Barry Culshaw but did not speak to the court)
Solicitor Mr Hodson (sol)
Hcc expert witness Graham Carter (gc)
Police witness PC Harrison (pc)
Non speaking
5 defendants
Mr wells of the safety camera unit
2 other police officers
My self and court staff
Solicitor asked for Mr Allen to be allowed to leave
The prosecution laid out the case.
They read out the charge that Mr Colman was alleged to have travelled at 56 in a 40 on Southampton rd Titchfield on ??/??/2005
It was established that Mr Colman’s case was a test case and the others would hinge on the result as they were detected by a camera van parked at the same location at different dates.
They presented a long coloured map of the sites with 40 limits in yellow and 30 limits in blue.
She stated the issues to be faced and identified that the defence would claim that if one sign was defective then the whole site would be incorrect and un-enforceable.
The crown view was that that thee was no “case law” and the broad interpretation was that 85.4 of the RTA ACT (ROAD TRAFFIC ACT 1984) no speed limit signs=shall not be convicted. A lack of such signs cannot be streaked to signs that drivers have not passed? I say signs comply with TSRGD 2002
(
www.opsi.gov.uk/SI/si2002/20023113.htm
Statutory Instrument 2002 No. 3113, The Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2002)
Section 1 states that on major roads the secretary of state is responsible to erect signs
Section 2 states size, colour, type and design
You will see the lengthy map all on A27. Part 1 we will focus on Titchfield.
She asks the bench: the defence plans to refer to Mr Lyus and his opinion in their defence, He is not present today he has not seen the signs and “it would be inadmissible hearsay” I plan to present pc Harrison & Mr carter of HCC.
The Pc took the stand somewhat over dressed to impose with stab vest loaded with goodies like phones, radio etc he had fully loaded tool belt with pouches including hand cuffs.
The DJ invited him to refer to his notebook of notes made on the day and established that they were made on the day. Pc answered yes.
Pros. Can you explain what you did on the day?
Pc from the start of duty including pre checks or on site?
Pros from pre checks
Pc I started at the station when I did fixed distance check measured by (trading standards?)
BC interrupted: We have accepted the measured speed in all these cases we really want to move on to the signing evidence.
(bc was trying to save the court time and money as all the disputed speed cases had been split off into another trial)
DJ agreed:
pc I go to the sight and check all the signage is in place, I drive the route and turn around and check the other way
BC : How many signs?
Pc: terminal and repeater signs? He then went on to list a mental list of the signs and repeaters along the route , turning round, another list and then parking in his police van bay.
BC How can you be sure
Pc if either of them, any of them are not present then I would abandon and go to another site.
BC can I confirm you go west to east A27 turn and go east to west then to lay-by?
Pc yes
BC Terminal signs, repeater signs and change of limit?
Pc Yes
BC Do you check side roads
Pc only on a weekly cycle (indicated approximately), Gosport road, not every time
(note: there are lots of side roads 25+)
BC Ranvilles lane 30 junction. Do you inspect that junction?
Pc I drive past it
Bc Do you check that junction?
Pc I do not drive into it
Bc shared some books of photos round the court
He then referred to photo 17
Is that a photo of the junction we are talking about?
Photo 18 is that the exit from ranvilles lane
Do you see a 40 sign there?
Pc no
Pc exiting from a30 to a 40 terminal signs are not required if repeater signs within 40m (might have said 100m, I wrote 40m)
Bc pc Harrison is correct in hi understanding of the law terminal signs are not required if there are repeaters within 100m in both directions
Bc what repeater signs are present? Do you know the distance?
Pc no
Bc If I told you the repeater sign was 256m west would you accept that
Pc I have not measured it
Bc are there any signs east?
Pc No, there is a 30 sign
Bc legal requirements are not met
Pc accepted
Bc what signs should have been in place?
Pc I am not a signing expert
Bc we shall move on to photo 25
Exiting the gyratory system
http://www.streetmap.co.uk/newmap.srf?x ... &ay=105970
photo 25
can you explain the limit change, 30 limit photo 26?
Pc only one sign.bc surprised?
Pc not particularly.
Bc photo 27 only one sign
Bc do you visit titchfield village
Pc yes
Photo 28 back of signs
Bc are there any 40 signs
Pc there are repeater signs, I would suggest they are within 100m
Bc to the other direction ? are there any signs east
Bc suggests there are not
Pc (struggles)
Bc clarifies route, no repeaters
Pc suggests “central verge”
Pc Possibly none?
Bc photo 36, view of Southampton hill to Southampton rd, how far east of the junction
Pc 150-200m
Bc Cars can turn east or west, what would be on the back of the 30 sign? & the lorry restriction signs
Pc end of weight limit sign
Bc photo 39 repeater sign and camera sign side on to motorist aimed at motorists on the a27
Bc no change to signing?
Pc yes, they have changed signing to co-locate camera and speed signs
(it was established that they were installed after these cases but not relevant, just meting rule changes brought in after these cases)
Bc, thank you officer.
Pros when were signs changed?
Pc in 2006, after 2005
Pros checking side roads, why only once a week?
Pc it would take along time (might have said “forever”)
Pc the main a27 is signed
Pros referred to picture 38 You drove into that road
Pc seniors said “sign not required”
BC you asked if it should have paired terminal signs?
Pc I questioned the manager of the partnership
Bc who
Pc Marion Sinclair
Bc Dr Marion Sinclair
Bc you did not think to ask the county council
I asked HCC employee who attended on a visit as liaison
(HCC are part of the camera partnership and attend steering committee meetings)
Sol asked pc about lorry limit end sign that was so faded that the lorry was not visible leaving 5 thin diagonal stripes looking like a national speed limit sign from a distance.
Pc allowed to leave, available within 1 hour.
Hcc signing expert Graham Carter
Into: Group manager for traffic Hcc
Pros checks, How did you comply with the regulations
Gc HCC follows the regulations as far as possible
Pros how strict are they
Gc picked up tsrgd illustrated that they were 2” thick said they were guidance not regulatory
Pros as far as you are able
Gc gave an example that where requirement for lighting of terminal signs within 50m of a street light they weren’t always able to complete the lighting due to the slow delivery of the electricity supply.
Dj we are dealing with the issue of traffic emerging from side roads
Bc we have conceded terminal sign illumination is not an issue as it was day time.
Pros “advisory”?
GC it has been a 40 limit a long time since 1981 and an older traffic order going back to the 1960’s
Dj not the issue
Gc regulations require the terminal and repeater signs and tsrgd give advice and guidance
Pros statutes encouraged to follow
Gc guidance would be ideal to following ideal situation
Pros by who?
Gc Department for transport (dft)
Gc we follow regulations based on guidance and advice
Pros you said signage compliant, refers back to photo 30 , view along a27 west direction, Why compliant?
(missed reply…possibly about section 9……)
Bc one area of agreement is that if not complied with then section 8 needs to be 100% complied with.
Pros Where is the terminal sign that this repeats
Gc past highlands rd
Photo 15
“Camera warning signs + externally illuminated 40 signs”
Pros between the terminal sign and the gyratory, are there any 30 limits
Gc it is 40 all along
(one of the defendants stressed to bc it was not, bc indicated he would deal with that issue later)
Bc asked gc if he was colleagues with Mr Lyus at the department for transport?
Gc yes
Bc Who is lyus?
Gc “Expert on signing at the department for transport, guru”
Bc my very word Guru
If we can go to a set of PowerPoint slides produced by lyus
Photo 17&18 ranvilles lane in and out
Bc lets be aware of section 8
They are directions
Directions from the dft to highways agencies
Bc what does the directions ask you to do here?
gc a pair of 40 signs or repeater signs at a maximum 100m
bc this guidance is a direction
gc it has flexibility
bc what flexibility? (snapped)
leaflet produced on spacing of repeaters
bc not section 8 or 9?
Gc yes
Bc has not complied with section 8?
Gc silence
Bc has not complied with section 8?
Gc silence
Bc can we visit section 8
Bc page 415 of Wilkinson’s 8.1
List of diagram signs
8.3. What is the secretary of state for transport directing Hampshire county council to do with that direction?
Gc place terminal signs
Bc paired terminal signs (statement not question)
Gc No guidance states lower to higher, not required, repeater within 100m
Bc that is section 9 not guidance it is law
Gc yes
Bc if it does not comply with section 8 it must comply with section 9
Bc tried to refer to lyus diagrams
Pros objected. Mr lyus was not there to give his commentary that accompanied the slide and did not necessarily know they were being used.
After consideration dj accepted they would be accepted to help him understand the issues but would not bee seen as evidence only illustrations of how a junction could be signed from the “guru” as to how section 8&9 apply.
Bc continued: I am looking for understanding section 8 & 9.
Bc do you accept that diagram
Gc yes
Next diagram, do you accept that diagram
Gc yes, with the proviso 20 m is not always possible
Sometimes there are electric cables in the way
( he was referring to a sign that must be placed within 20m of a junction)
Bc it is not there any way
Bc Higher limit on other road
Bc that is ranvilles rd (diagram that represents the ranville rd layout)
Gc except you cant turn right from ranvilles rd
Bc that is section 8,
Gc section 9 95b
Bc dosent say “may” says “have been placed”
Gc mr lyus has needed to clarify then it may need interpretation
Gc repeaters would be nonsensical in that location as you cannot turn right
Bc is there a sign to the left within 100m
Gc not sure what was theree in 2005
Bc mr Bentley has measured it
Bc has it complied with section 9?
Gc yes
Bc has it?
Gc no
(brief delay to get dj up to speed on the location of this verbal exchange)
Dj no 40 sign until you enter thegyratory?
Bc what terminal signs
Gc no terminal signs
(big grin moment from defendants)
Lets move to titchfeild photo 25
Bc no terminal signs visable
Gc that is not the motorists view
Bc what is the distance
Gc 20m
Bc the 40 limit is terminated by 30, how far is the sign
No reply
Bc 65m
Gc depends where you measure from
Bc photo 28,29 is there any signs 30 to 40
Gc no
Bc do you see a repeater
Gc there is no east sign , it is the gyratory (big one way roundabout)
Bc if you cannot comply with section 9 then what must you do?
Gc you can apply to the secretay of state but it would be nonsense
Bc you could erect twin signs
Gc don’t agree with interpretation, I think it complies sufficiently, as there is no right turn
Bc if you cant comply with section 9 then you must comply with section 8
You haven’t complied with section 95b then you are thrown back to section 8
The signing is not lawfull
Gc sufficient to comply
Bc under what discression?
Gc cant turn right
Bc where does it say that in section 9
Gc it dosent
Bc section 8 not been done
Gc no
Dj so a stranger driving through Titchfield would not know what the limit was until the 30 limit
Gc thinks they would because of the repeaters
Bc motorists would not know of 40 limit until the 30 limit
Gc no
Photos 37 &38
Bc what speed limit signing
Gc none within Southampton hill, 40 repeater left a more or less opposite
Bc not visable to motorists turning right, they are side on to motorists. Pc Harrison was concerned about 2 junctions
Gc not my day to day responsibilities on signing
Bc I want to now go to your report “meets the requirements of trsgd” fails section 8 and 9 Are you saying the law is complied with?
Gc meets adequate signing, 3 repeaters
Bc it was not adequately started?
Silence
Bc has it?
Silence
Has it?
Gc squerms
Bc has the speed limit been started under section 8 or section 9
Gc no
Bc are you aware of section 85 regulations
Gc in general terms
Bc read out section 85.2
Secretary of state direction to erect signs and give motorist adequate guidance
Bc have there been any steps to rectify missing signs
Gc no
Sol photo 18
Sol no 40 terminal sign + repeater at 240 m
Sol see the give way sign next to that a white sign it is supposed to be sign 622.2 only it is very faded (622.2 is the end of the lorry weight limit)
Gc matter for interpretation
Sol the black diagonal lines on grey, the lorry’s faded it can be mistaken for a national speed limit sign?
Gc I don’t think so
Sol no further questions.
Pros does the motorist have to pass a terminal sign to be advised?
Gc yes
Pros are there signs that initiate the limit
Gc on the a27 yes
Break for 5 min
Bc the starting point (for legislation)
Section 85 of the road traffic act 1984
85.1 Adequate guidance
It is the duty of the secretary of state for roads under his authority, trunk roads& motorways
85.2 any other roads are the duty of highways authority (hcc) to alter or remove signs
This is enshrined in tsrgd
Section 8 &9 terminal signing. Page 10 defines signs
8.1 refers to 670 sign
8.3 refers to single carriageway roads how to terminate and start limits
It is not guidance it is direction.
It is the law.
The only variance to section 8 is section 9.
If the limit is not lawfully signed a repeater cannot repeat an unsigned limit
Section 85.4 (of the rta act) states that if there is no such system of signing then a motorist shall not be convicted
85.4 Binds you to acquit
Sol I adopt that argument.
Pros 85.4 states “the road” not “any road”
“The road”….. The road you were travelling on
Thee is no evidence to indicate route
Bc does not meet “means rea” (note: prosecutions’ job to prove route not defendants to prove route not travelled)
Dj that’s right
Adjourned to wait for judges decision
Decision
R v Coleman 8/10/07 by DJ Gillibrand
Four steps to the decision
1. s.85(2) imposes duty on Hampshire County Council to erect and maintain etc traffic signs which comply with directions of Secretary of State for Transport.
2. I am satisfied that Directions 8 and 9 of TSRAGD 2002 have not been
complied with at Southampton Hill, Titchfield gyratory system and Ranvilles Lane, all side roads off A27.
3. I am equally satisfied that Directions 8 and 9 are mandatory, not advisory.
4. 1 am dealing with submission of no case to answer. I regard myself as bound by s.85(4) RTRA 1984. I regard that section as having a natural and obvious meaning. I propose to give it that obvious and natural meaning and not some strange reflection on when a speed limit rather artificially starts and ends or how a particular m/v arrives on the relevant road, being A27. 1 take that view because Regulations make it absolutely clear that the requirements in relation to traffic signs, whether terminal or repeater, relate specifically to side roads and as a consequence 1 find that so far as Mr Coleman is concerned, there is no case to answer.
As an aside I am persuaded that the envelope argument is correct. I say as an aside because it strikes me that my decision supports that contention because that is what the law says.
When Mr Carter was being cross-examined I thought it a significant answer to the question, which was that signing of speed limit, was not lawfully started, when he conceded that that was the case.
(this statemet allso covers the two aditional defendants
8 in total)
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