Safe Speed Forums

This happened a few weeks back...

Overtook a woman in a Skoda Fabia on the B4066 at Coaley Peak. NSL road, she was doing around 40mph. Perfectly safe overtake along the straight section.

She took great exception to this and began flashing her lights and tailgating me. I planted it to open up a gap.

About a mile further on (through Penn Wood) I came up behind a Focus doing around 55mph - a speed along that road at which I wouldn't normally bother overtaking. Except that Ms Skoda had now caught up with me and begun flashing her lights and tailgating me again.

Knowing there was a good straight coming up after the next RH bend I took up the overtaking position behind the Focus ready to go as soon as it was safe. Unfortunately the Focus driver mistook this as an act of aggression - and slammed her brakes on halfway round the bend.

I of course braked firmly and stopped well short of the Focus (Audi's brakes are pretty damned good!). Skoda Woman... didn't. And ended up piledriving into the back of me.

Skoda Woman insisted on involving the police, who took statements but basically couldn't be bothered. Her insurance company admitted full liability and my car has now been repaired.

Any comments?

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Magistrates rule #1: "Never let justice get in the way of a conviction."

Could you expand on this bit some more please?

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I won't slave for beggar's pay,
likewise gold and jewels,
but I would slave to learn the way
to sink your ship of fools

Not much to expand on?

The road bends to the right then there's a long overtaking straight. Knowing the road I'd assumed the "overtaking position", ie closing up to between 1 and 2 seconds behind the car I'm about to overtake instead of the more usual 2-3 second gap.

This was a risk assessment, I felt it was less risky to prepare to overtake the Focus. I'm familiar with the braking performance of the MkI Focus and know that it takes longer to stop than my A4 (rear drum brakes, no ABS etc), therefore even if the Focus was to do a full emergency stop with me 1 second behind I'd still be able to stop quicker.

I felt at this moment that I was more at risk from the Skoda too close behind me than the Focus suddenly stopping.

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Magistrates rule #1: "Never let justice get in the way of a conviction."

How do you know she saw it as aggression? Did she stop? Surely if you were one second behind, there would still have been a reasonable gap between you?

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I won't slave for beggar's pay,
likewise gold and jewels,
but I would slave to learn the way
to sink your ship of fools

The mistake you made, which I am sure you have realised by now, is responding to someone else's driving by making yours more dangerous.

You should have approached the Focus just as you would normally, or as you were being tailgated, with more caution.

If the forthcoming straight is big enough, hanging back in the bend would be my favourite option. If, as a result of the hang back, the overtake is lost (something coming that you can't beat), so be it.

Did you witness any aggression or close-following etc by the Skoda driver before you passed it? I often decide to not overtake even a slow driver if they show tailgating tendencies until I can do a double to avoid just the scenario you encountered.

With a RH bend I would hang back to get the better view and accelerate through the bend to overtake (providing the road is clear) before the overtakee has chance to get annoyed. Carries the chance they won't see you coming (stealth overtake) but it's worth the tradeoff in case they are one of those people who think overtaking is bad. The downside is having to abort if it isn't clear.

Thanks for the feedback. No, the Skoda driver wasn't showing any signs of aggression until I overtook her, then she turned into one of those foaming-at-the-mouth "overtaking BAD!" types!

So if a similar situation arises again:

Hang back from the car in front a little so I don't need to brake hard.

Overtake before the car in front knows what I'm doing and before they have a chance to do something silly (speed up, move out to the centre of the road etc).

Would this be a fair assumption?

As far as the insurance goes it was clear cut - she was at fault, she accepted full liability (in the end!). But better to avoid the accident in the first place.

As I always say to a friend of mine, it's going to say one of two things on his headstone. Either "it was the other driver's fault" or "I wasn't breaking the speed limit"...

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Magistrates rule #1: "Never let justice get in the way of a conviction."

I'm worried about this thread. It's obviously possible to encounter two seriously upset other drivers in quick succession, but is it likely?

Surely it must be more likely that something in Squirrel's style upset them?

My best guess - and it's only a guess - is they they both considered Squirrel's driving to be aggressive.

Are you getting any other regular 'upset signals' from other drivers Squirrel? Are you sure? Are you really really sure?

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

The Focus driver only got aggressive when I tried to overtake her (to get away from the Skoda). My guess is that I probably closed up the gap too much and she thought i was being aggressive.

Again, only a guess. But I'd like to avoid that happening again.

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Magistrates rule #1: "Never let justice get in the way of a conviction."

It's possible that the Focus driver thought Squirrel anf the Skoda were racing, and panic set in.
They might even have thought that braking as soon as they saw the exit from the bend was the best way to get both following drivers past ASAP.

If somebody tailgates me, I look for the earliest opportunity to let them past - and slow to a speed which enables them to do so in the shortest possible time.

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Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

If Squirrell was looking to pass and the one in front was in a low gear it is likely that the engine braking kicked in for a short time before the brakes were applied, all of which could give a perception of harsh braking that was in fact just a practical (but misguided) indication of being prepared to be overtaken and facilitating same.

I can remember in the earlier days of my courtship with June. If ever we went anywhere in convoy for whatever reason, she was in front if she knew the way (as I was a better catcher-upper), but I led if she was unsure of directions. She used to hang back for all the right reasons and I used to make every available opportunity for any leap froggers to get past me too. If I felt that, for whatever reason, any leapfrogger had wronged her (I did once or twice), I was sufficiently red misted to teach them a lesson - which could well have included me boxing them in behind me by braking when I thought they were close enough that they'd be unsighted from oncoming traffic. I;ve grown up since then I hasten to add, but it could easily have been a young courting couple in convoy that Squirrel temporarily split up.

The Skoda driver was aggressively tailgating me and flashing her headlights when I came up behind the Focus. Been going over it repeatedly, I think I may have fallen victim to a minor case of red mist... "s***, got to get past this Focus, I've got this psycho driver trying to ram me" etc.

So maybe a minor panic set in on my part - and that's why the Focus driver thought I was being aggressive? She did say she thought she saw me flashing my headlights at her (actually it was the Skoda driver that was doing this).

Put this one down to experience I think.

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Magistrates rule #1: "Never let justice get in the way of a conviction."

I have to say, that while riding my CD175 between Kendal and Windermere, I was once passed by a sports car which had it's filler cap off, and everytime it went round a lefthand bend, it was spewing fuel.
I gave chase with some difficulty, and tried to attract the attention of the driver by flashing my lights, but to no avail - I followed at an increasing distance until the driver made it to Windermere, and pulled up at a hotel!

When I pulled up behind and got off the bike to explain to him his problem, he raced inside the hotel!! I had to follow inside to explain I was not some irate biker with a grudge, but was simply trying to tell him he was losing fuel, and it was now a lot longer drive back to the filling station to find his filler cap!!

Up here in Cumbria, somebody giving chase and flashing their lights having been passed is somewhat unusual even these days, and would usually give rise to a sense of puzzlement on behalf of the lead car - possibly causing them to pull over to see what had dropped off!

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Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

Ernest - in days of yore etc - (and toilet paper was a dock leaf) - anyone flashing light behind you had seen something to alert you to problems - nowadays - it could be a nutter or a knight - but can we take the chance ??
I've given up nowadays as any attempt to be a "Knight" is either seen by the opposite sex ( and I'm an old wrinkly) as a chat up opportunity ,or by men as an aggressive act.So - I just steer clear of them .The exception is HGV drivers ,who I find accept observations in the spirit that we give them .

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

A learning experience, which you seem to have gained from.

Another possible interpretation of the Focus braking suddenly:

Rather than being aggressive, is it possible that the driver was simply a nervous one and, upon seeing and possibly being dazzled by lights behind them, got edgy and slowed down more than they should have done given the circumstances?

I find it useful to follow a driver at a safe distance and constant speed for a while to judge their own style - e.g. sudden braking, accelerating, tendency to weave etc... I realise in this case, you felt you couldn't do this but I'm sure you realise now that it might have been a safer course of action.