Safe Speed Forums

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/bradford/7295831.stm



Why dont these people apply themselves to campaigning for better driver training?

Better driver training would tackle the issue they are presently campaigning for, and address issues such as the drivers who reverse over family members - often on their own driveways, and the low speed incidents which are just as devastating as those caused by other factors.

My immediate question was HOW did a two year old get out onto the road unnattended - or did the car driver lose control and mount the pavement?
This does not seem to be addressed in this article!

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Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

How times have changed. I used to go to Sunday school with two girls whose mother lost her first child in an accident like this. She was taken to court and charged with negligence. (I don't know what the exact charge was) It must have been a terrible blow for someone who'd lost her child.

But now the pendulum has swung back too far, and whatever the circumstances of these tragedies, it's always the motorist's fault, or even if it wasn't, then speed is blamed.

The sooner people face up to the REAL causes of these road fatalities, the sooner action can be taken to reduce them. I had that "discussion" with hjeg2 a few weeks ago.

An all too common situation.

I blame current policy. You can't expect the average member of the public to pore over the evidence, figures etc, and come to the conclusion that "speed" isn't actually that important, in the way that most of us here have. People should be able to rely on the government to tell them honestly what the important factors are in road accident causation, and there we've all been let down very badly.

Yes, the council said that speed wasn't a factor. But, set against a decade and a half of relentless "speed kills" from the authorities, it's not going to change the mind of this bereaved family. The family is wrong, but it's not really their fault, it's this lying government that's to blame (and those sections of the media which lazily and unquestioningly support and broadcast the propaganda). There may also be other factors, e.g. some people's instinctive support of sanctimonious and controlling policies, but without this government, there is no way that anything like as many people would have become so obsessed with "speeding" being the cause of (seemingly) all road accidents.

This sort of thing is incredibly sad and frustrating all in all, and just one more very unfortunate result of not having proper road safety policies. It's only a symptom, though, and to remove it we need to cure the disease (Labour). There's no point in arguing with a bereaved family and telling them that they're just making things worse, however true that might be. They're victims as much as the rest of us, even if they're not aware of it, and even if they're unintentionally contributing towards the current madness.

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Paul Smith: a legend.

"The freedom provided by the motor vehicle is not universally applauded, however: there are those who resent the loss of state control over individual choice that the car represents. Such people rarely admit their prejudices openly; instead, they make false or exaggerated claims about the adverse effects of road transport in order to justify calls for higher taxation or restrictions on mobility." (Conservative Way Forward: Stop The War Against Drivers)

Well said bombus!

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Useless laws weaken necessary laws.

Ithankyou!

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Paul Smith: a legend.

"The freedom provided by the motor vehicle is not universally applauded, however: there are those who resent the loss of state control over individual choice that the car represents. Such people rarely admit their prejudices openly; instead, they make false or exaggerated claims about the adverse effects of road transport in order to justify calls for higher taxation or restrictions on mobility." (Conservative Way Forward: Stop The War Against Drivers)

Agreed.

It is extremely difficult to argue against those who have suffered a tragic loss but in my view it has to be done. Their emotion driven demands can not be allowed to go unquestioned and unchallenged, otherwise we can not jointly act effectively to minimise the likelihood of further tragedies of this sort.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

They also need to remember that the mechanics of an impact with a 2 year old are very different to an adult. When most cars hit an adult, they hit below his (or her) centre of gravity so they are scooped up on to the bonnet. With something as small as a 2 year old, they hit well above the centre of gravity and push him (or her) to the ground and then run over them. If the impact occurs at 20 rather than 30, it just means the car drives over the child 10MPH slower but the result is the same.

Of course, the argument wil lcome back that if the motorist is doing 20, s/he will be more likely to be able to stop in time. Well, that's only true if the kid steps out the same distance in front of the car as it would have done if the driver had been doing 30. In reality, there is no way of knowing when the kid will step out so it's best to stop the kid stepping out in the first place.

Tragic accident of course, but whatever happened to reins?. My two (now 19 and 16 respectively) were leashed in public until they were of an age where they would respond fully to parental authority. A two-year-old has no concept of danger whatsoever and responds to its own stimuli without thought of consequence.
Aquila Major was known as Captain Dangerous when he was small, as he had the ability to home in on some way of injuring himself - you could have put him in an empty box and he would have found a way of cutting himself/bumping his head etc. Aquila Minor was more prone to 'explosive behaviour', making sudden breaks for freedom at utterly random times - her reins saved her life on many more than one occasion.
Another benefit of the reins was the threat of their use, after our two had 'graduated', if their public behaviour became unacceptable.

The loss of such a young life is tragic, but has anyone spared a thought for the poor bugger that hit this kid? What self-recriminations are they going through day-to-day? What nightmares haunt them in the lonely small hours?

In the eyes of this government, as motorists (and, increasingly, as [spit]'citizens'[/spit], we are all guilty until proven guilty.

It is a parlous state of affairs...

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Aquila



Licat volare si super tergum aquila volat...

Google search string..... "Connor Graham Claremount Road killed"

This article carries a little more information...
http://www.halifaxcourier.co.uk/news/Teenage-girl-killed-in-Halifax.3362206.jp



http://www.halifaxcourier.co.uk/news/39Act-now-to-make-our.3881502.jp

Given that most councils cave in to pressure in these situations, it seems like they must have good reason to think that the circumstances (the drivers ACTUAL speed) do not warrant a decreased limit.

On our estate, nearly ALL drivers travel at a sensible limit below the actual posted limit (30mph) during daylight hours or when children are clearly playing out in the streets.

The biggest problem by far is lack of forward observation of just a few drivers who fail to anticipate situations developing ahead of them, and children who seem to think they are invincible, or that cars are just something else to involve in play - such as rolling a football out of their garden into the path of a passing car, and seeing how close they can get it! The perpetrators remain hidden from view while they do this!!
I must be one of the few motorists who STOPPED, and warned them of the potential consequences of such stupidity.
The parents certainly dont seem bothered, and probably wont do until a driver swerves to avoid it and hits one of their "innocent" offspring.

My own house is at the top of a hill - a cul-de-sac, and two years ago, young children (4-6 year olds) took to launching themselves down the hill from in front of my house, lying prone on a skateboard... towards a bend and junction 50 yards down the hill.
Not one parent bothered to warn them that in this situation, they were placing themselves in danger even from a vehicle travelling at 15 - 20 mph.
When I spoke to them, I was told "We're not doing anything wrong!" In other words, nobody else had warned them off!

I am currently campaigning for a 5 mph speed limit on our estate, and 10 inches of foam covering every square inch of concrete and tarmac, and wrapped around every lamp post and telegraph pole in order to protect the children from possible harm!

If this fails, I will ask that all parents watch their children instead of Eastenders or Neighbours!

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Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

Probably for the same reason a child nearly walked into the front of me yesterday: Her mother was standing IN the road talking to the driver of a car. The child was standing [as I approached] on the footpath. As I got closer, I slowed RIGHT down to less than 15...there were also children on my left side....then the child ran behind the car to get to her mother....who was standing in the road, so she suddenly appeared in front of me. Her mother went ballistic and started shouting at the child....personally, I thought the mother was a dummie. But then, too many are now.

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

It's all the fault of this bloody Nanny State. Corporate responsibility of the administration breeds personal apathy in the populace.

Basically, Darwin over-ruled!

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Aquila



Licat volare si super tergum aquila volat...

GOOD FOR YOU SWEETHEART!!! AND NO NOT TOO MANY MOTHERS ARE DUMMIES...... I CERTAINLY AM NOT! YOU ON THE OTHER HAND WELL THATS DEBATEABLE, PUTTING A COMMENT LIKE THAT ON.

JUST TO INFORM YOU I AM THE CHILDS MUMMY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

HE WASNT LEFT TO WANDER IN THE ROAD ON HIS OWN, AND I AM NOT WILLING TO GO INTO DETAIL WITH ANY OF YOU LOSERS!!

BUT JESUS DONT YOU ALL THINK WE ARE SUFFERING ENOUGH WITHOUT YOU HEARTLESS PEOPLE MAKING YOUR COMMENTS!!

TELL YOU WHAT, YOU ALL NEED TO GET LIFES AND GET OUT MORE.... NOT LIKE MY SON CAN.....

AND THE COMMENT ABOUT NOT WANTING TO ARGUE WITH A GRIEVING FAMILY....BRING IT ON!!!!

YES WE HAVE THOUGHT ABOUT THE POOR BUGGER THAT HIT OUR SON (YES IT WAS A TRAGIC ACCIDENT) AND WE TALK TO THE LAD, OBVIOUSLY WE ARE NEVER GONNA BE BEST PALS. BUT WE ARE POLITE WITH EACH OTHER!!! SO YEAH WE HAVE THOUGHT ABOUT HIM

AND I KNOW A 2 YEAR OLD HAS NOT A LARGE CONSENTRATION SPAN, BUT MY SON KNEW THE DANGERS OF THE ROAD, AND HE WAS DISTRACTED FOR 2 SECONDS WHILST SOME GIRLS WERE SHOUTING HIS NAME!!!!!! HE WAS STEPPING INTO THE CAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
HE LEGGED IT, I GRABBED HIS ARM, BUT IT WAS TOO LATE!!!!! THATS ALL THE INFO YOUR GETTING.

WE COULD GO ON FOREVER AND EVER BLAMING PEOPLE BUT WE ARE NOT.

WE COULD BLAME ME, DADDY, CONNOR HIMSELF, THE GIRLS, THE DRIVER I COULD GO ON!!!

WE ARE TRYING TO GET TRAFFIC TO SLOW DOWN ON THIS ROAD AS PEOPLE HAVE BEEN TRYING FOR OVER 15 YEARS BUT OUR AREA SEEMS TO GET OVERLOOKED!!!!

SO YOU KEEP THINKING OF THE POOR BUGGER THAT HIT MY SON!! AND CARRY ON WRITING YOUR COMMENTS.
THANK YOU

MY SON WAS NOT IN THE ROAD UNATTENDED!!!! THAT IS ALL YOU NEED TO KNOW. UNLESS YOU ARE IN THE FAMILY OR A VERY CLOSE FRIEND, YOU DONT NEED TO KNOW......

SO KEEP THINKING AND MAKING YOUR COMMENTS

NO ass THE FAMILY ISNT WRONG WE NEVER SAID CONNOR DIED DUE TO A SPEEDING DRIVER!!!!!!!!! READ UP BEFORE POSTING A COMMENT LIKE THAT!!

HOW THE HELL ARE WE CONTRIBUTING TOWARDS THE CURRENT MADNESS???????? THE WHOLE COMMUNITY IS BEHIND WE ARE TRYING TO MAKE OUR SURROUNDING AREAS SAFER FOR DRIVERS AND PEDESTRIANS!!!!

WHY THE F*CK DO YOU WANT TO ARGUE WITH A GRIEVING FAMILY ANYWAY!!????? AND WHY ARE WE MAKING THINGS WORSE??!! HAS ANYMORE PEOPLE BEEN KILLED.........NO
HAS ANYONE BEEN INJURED..............NO
SO HOW IS IT WORSE???????

BY THE WAY IM MUMMY SO HAVE A LITTLE RESPECT

COME ON THEN DAVE, CONNORS MUMMY HERE!!! DOES IT REALLY HAVE TO BE DONE.. DOES IT????!!!!
(TALKING ABOUT ARGUING WITH A GRIEVING FAMILY)!!!!

DO YOU GET KICKS ARGUING WITH PEOPLE?? SICKO

SO ALL THE COMMUNITY AND THE PETITION THAT WAS SIGNED WITH OVER 800 SIGNATURES (NOT ORGANISED BY THE FAMILY) ARE MAKING EMOTIONAL DEMANDS ARE THEY!!???? HOW??

THE FAMILY AND THE COMMUNITY ARE TRYING TO MINIMISE FURTHER ACCIDENTS........

GET A LIFE!!

YOU HAD A COURSE ON THIS THEN???

NO MY SON WASNT RUN OVER HE WAS HIT!!! NOT DRIVEN OVER!! OH YOUR COURSE MAYBE A LITTLE WRONG!!! I AM WELL AWARE OF ALL THE DETAILS AS I LOST MY SON AND WAS INFORMED BY THE POLICE AND DOCTORS...... DONT NEED YOUR OPINION YOU HAVE FOUND ON GOOGLE SEARCH ... BUT THANKS ANYWAY..... IT WAS ABOUT AS MUCH USE AS A CHOCOLATE FIRE GUARD

CHEERS

BLOODY HELL YOU ARE ALL A SET OF FREAKS, WHY HAVE YOU GOT NOTHING BETTER TO DO WITH YOUR LIFES???

IF YOU HAVE YOUR OWN KIDS, MAYBE YOU SHOULD START TALKING TO THEM AND SPENDING TIME WITH THEM, INSTEAD OF SITTING ON YOUR BACKSIDES ON HERE, NEVER MIND NEIGHBOURS OR EASTENDERS...... THIS IS MUCH BETTER TO GOSSIP ABOUT ISNT IT....

SOMEBODYS LOSS IS A GREAT TOPIC FOR CONVERSATION....... YOU ALL MAKE ME SICK

Hmm.

Glad you feel strongly enough about the topic to join and post soaw, that must have taken a lot of courage. I think if you come back in the morning and read your posts however, and those they are in response to, you might see why some people feel that grieving families are too irrational to enter serious debate for some time after their loss.

I think you should realise, first of all, that no one is blaming you for the death of your son. Any accident, however tragic, is a conspiracy of circumstances, where it is often lots of little blames, rather than one big blame, that leads to the unthinkable. The thing is, removing any one of these 'links in the chain' prevents the accident, or at least mitigates it's severity.

The key to preventing a recurrance of these tragedies is to learn all the possible lessons from them. I am a military aviator, and I have tragically lost several friends to flying accidents, both in peacetime and combat related. Every one of these has been thoroughly investigated, so that the true causes can be brought to light, and lessons learnt to prevent the same thing happening again. Sure people could flippantly put it down to pilot error, and leave it at that, but that wouldn't do much good to the next person to fall foul of the situation.

Your son's tragic death deserves no less fastidious dissection if it is not to be in vain. If the true causes could be discovered, and those lessons learnt, then your child would leave a valuable legacy, to save other children's lives. To merely go with the party line, and either blame it on speed, or suggest that it wouldn't have happened were the speed to have been less, risks doing a disservice to your son's memory, if it turns out that other measures could have done more good.

Why not? It might not have happened at all if the speed was lower (more time to react for the driver), or if it did the injuries might not have been life threatening.