Safe Speed Forums

I "challenge" Speed Camera Supporters to debate methods of safe driving which do not involve "speed" or limits or checking your speedometer. These methods may include subtle actions which may not be required to pass the driving test but make a big difference on the road. I never seem to hear anything else from them other than "30mph, slam your brakes on, 30mph, slam your brakes on", theirs more to safe driving than this, and even the most basic common sense aspects are lost amongst this constant "speed" issue, and its the lack of addressing these issues that are making our roads more dangerous whilst "speed kills" is preached. I throw down the gauntlet.........

While they're at it:

I also "challenge" Speed Camera Supporters to prove that speed cameras statistically (on average, not on an individually cherry-picked basis) save any lives when properly factoring the very real and substantial effects of Regression to the Mean, Long-term trend and 'bias on selection' (other unrelated safety measures within the 'camera site').

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

i was under the impression in order to drive you need momentum, in order to get momentum you need acceleration and therfore speed,



like what



please expand who says to slam on your breaks at 30mph, all i see is requests to respect the posted limit

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now retired

LD i fear you've not been reading these forums a great deal.

there seem to me to be very few threads which don't include reference to more advanced driving techniques and COAST etc etc.

The point i'm trying to make is that whilst i respect where camera supporters are coming from, I never seem to hear them mention anything else such as common sense factors such as checking mirrors, leaving a gap, moving over an extra couple of inches when passing cyclists etc etc, its all speed speed speed.
My "challenge" is to test their driving knowledge and see if they actually think / know about other factors, and its these simple factors (excluding speed related factors) which are absent in a lot of peoples driving, which lead to accidents but are never touched upon due to our nations single issue based road safety policy. I mentioned in a different post about driving through a section of road just above the posted limit (conditions, circumstances prevailing) 10 times, then pull out of a junction without looking 10 times, our change lane without checking your mirrors 10 times, and see who causes the first accident, just to prove the other factors.

Yes, I can see where you are "coming from". I myself often wonder if the people in local authority highways dept.s even drive, they surely can't drive far or at any other time than "rush hour". If they did, they would appreciate how ridiculously restrictive their "congestion solving" measures are when the peak traffic has disappeared and "normal" traffic is resumed. They too seem to think that road safety is all about slowing everyone down to a sheeplike, numbskullinly boring speed where most people are likely to drift off rather than concentrate on their driving.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

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now retired

It's still easy target "criminalisation" though isn't it? How many accidents are actually caused by not wearing a seat belt? What percentage of accidents are caused by people using mobile phones? It would be more productive to try and find the people who drive badly through ignorance or lack of "care" over their driving but the authorities would have to work harder to do this and they won't do this, even though the "rewards" would be much greater.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

Sorry CO but I must comment on this.


That's good, but from the report it seems from the report that these were down to the actions of the police, not the SCP:
"pulled over by Kent Police Officers"

Unfortunately, even the police are succumbing to the manipulation of the SCPs:

What about fatigue and not looking properly? Both of these on their own account for a much bigger slice of the collision pie than 'speeding'!

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

observed by and filmed by SCP stopped by RPU, nothing new but Kent decide to publish it



fatigue - is there a camera that detects fatigue ????
not looking properly - thats due care and attention

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now retired

But the SCP wasn't needed was it? All it needed was the trafpol, the SCP is merely a middle man.


Exactly! Trafpol can (the weaving, the tailgating, the nodding head.....)


It is a subset of it yes. Either way, it wasn't within the given shortlist.

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

Yes, cameras aren't going to stop the majority of fatal accidents happening are they?

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

It's a pity for those who would profit from the 'mistakes' made by the reasonable and prudent majority, but at least they have our money to make them feel better.

What makes this whole subject so difficult is that trustworthy drivers 'police' themselves against several checklist items that even the best officer can't detect, except by proxy.

When I'm tired, the dispatcher can yell and scream all he wants, but in half an hour or less, I'm done driving. I don't blame him. (By the way, history suggests that a cabdriver's fellow drivers are exponentially more likely to much sooner detect any signs that that driver should stop, than the dispatcher.)

Were one to continue, their driving might show signs of ... what? ... , thus they might be pulled over under the suspicion of driving while
a) doing any number of substances (probably alcohol, then drugs, then ... I dunno, what?)
b) distracting oneself
c) being distracted by someone else
d) using a cellphone - which is actually both 'b' & 'c'
e) suffering a mechanical problem
f) tired
g) not being very good at it

The officer who pulls over a driver showing signs of either being unfit to drive, or simply driving badly or erratically, has to pull over the driver and then begin searching for some sort of cause.

'The law' thus uses proxies which assume either an elevated risk of something bad happening, or making some bad thing worse. Note that no one who wants to tax you for these proxies is willing - or in many cases capable - of explaining in any detail the difference between raising the risk and worsening the consequence - except to cite Vehicle & Traffic Law, or Highway Code, etc.

The easiest of these proxies to measure is speed; so easy to measure, in fact, that it is one of the few proxies that can be quantified without a direct human witness.

Any wonder why it is abused as a law enforcement tool? Any wonder why speeding tickets always exceed all other reasons for driver citations than nearly all others combined?

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The Rules for ALL ROAD USERS:
1) No one gets hurt
2) Nothing gets hit, except to protect others; see Rule#1
3) The Laws of Physics are invincible and immutable - so-called 'laws' of men are not
4) You are always immediately and ultimately responsible for your safety first, then proximately responsible for everyone's
Do not let other road users' mistakes become yours, nor yours become others
5) The rest, including laws of the land, is thoughtful observation, prescience, etiquette, decorum, and cooperation

I wonder if the 'speeding' was excessive for conditions or a posted limit ! Plus the seat belts do cause many many injuries and in some cases more than if not worn, however stats do show an overall benefit.
BUT people do not perceive this AND it seems like a 'cry wolf'. Plus were those journey's short one's I wonder ? Is there a lower 'risk' perception for shorter journeys ?

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Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

Seat belts do not cause as many injuries as being thrown forward onto the steering-wheel, and then continuing further forward into the windscreen and worse.
Not wearing a seat belt in a vehicle equipped with an air bag has the dubious advantage of initially being thrown forward from the initial impact deceleration, to be then violently thrown back by the expanding airbag !
In all scenarios the driver will sustain inury, all that can be hoped is that they will sustain lesser injury from a seat-belt and airbag equipped vehicle.
I (personally) think that all drivers should be shown what others have to see after an accident. Having to remove body parts from inside a vehicle after its recovery is rather sobering.
As for local authorities removing congestion and traffic calming measures after rush hour ?
Still not getting it ?
The idea is to remove VEHICLES from the town at all times, or to reduce the quantity.
My town will have a [partial] bypass soon, at the moment the A6 and A428 go through the town, soon the A428 will be routed around the town to meet the A421 (feeder from A1/M1) and a significant amount of traffic will bypass the town. BUT to ensure that that happens, and that drivers do not continue to use the [shorter] through-town route, "traffic calming" measures will be used. Probably single-laning the high street etc. Without those traffic will chose a route that saves a mile. Most places will not have a benefit of a bypass, so traffic impeding measures are used to remove those vehicles that do not "need" to be there.
Such is life.
You may as well get used to it, since it WILL be appearing at a town near you.

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

Utter utter tripe.

Read a few of my posts, I continually discuss the things you mention and I have no issue whatsoever with speed cameras.

Right - I really have to leave to see my wife (in hospital. Nothing serious. Motherhood ) but to the OP and weepy - take a look at IG's posts in Cycling about Allan Ramsay.. an accident caused by a fool in a car) .. and GMP's comments when justifying offering the course to his victim - who agrees it to be a wiser decision.

Allan happens to be the Roadpeace Man for Manchester by the way. My view- bloke should have been prosecuted for hit and run all the same.

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