Safe Speed Forums

Hi all,

I hope / think there will be two press releases going out today (Friday) on M4 Protest.

I could REALLY use a few words from regular users of the M4 talking about any changes in the driving experience since the camera vans. Think about the following:

How many camera vans have you seens and how often?

Is traffic behaviour different?

Have you seen panic braking or any strange behaviour near a camera van?

Anything else you want to say?

I can use about 150 words (total) from 4 different folk - so try and crystalise any experiences into a couple of sentences.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

M4 speed cameras have caused road inattention (studying speedos and bridges), increased tailgating and I have witnessed panic breaking near a camera. Traffic flow has not improved at all. I drive this stretch twice daily, and it feels more dangerous as you cannot accelerate through blind spots because of the cameras.

Hope this helps!

Need any more, drop me an email via PM

Scott

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"Are you sh**ing me?"
"John Spartan, you are fined one credit for a violation of the verbal morality statute."

not a daily user of the M4 but fairly regular.

The traffic is definately not flowing in a natural manner since the aggressive enforcement of the NSL.

On tuesday I encountered what was effectively a rolling block travelling at about 50mph. three lanes all moving at approximately the same speed making it extremely stressful. The cause of the rolling block soon became apparent.

A white vehicle on the HS with some sort of technicians in yellow jackets. not even an enforcement van.

Drivers are now petrified to drive naturally, and the result is a conjested, stressful driving environment.

try driving along the m4 in south wales where the scameras have been rife for some time. its without doubt one of the most stressful environments I have ever driven in. Aggressive enforcement results in unnatural behaviour resulting in poor lane discipline and increased danger.

I work and have to manage people in a situation where safety is of the upmost concern. What I try and achieve is an environment where they can operate as natutarlly as possible so that they can concentrate on doing the job properly rather than be in fear of the rules. GUESS WHAT...IT WORKS!

I hae seen more van cameras but I have still suffered from people tailgating me while I travel at 70 mph on the inside lane, we need more I think, or perhaps police stopping people on the motorway if they go over 70 - that would be great, seems like fines just don't work.

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freedom is knowledge of one's necessity

or how about stopping those driving dangerously like tailgating? That's what they used to do when deaths on the road dropped year on year, instead of worrying themselves needlessly about arbitory limits and increasing the deaths on our roads.

And just how are cameras going to stop people from tailgating?
Just how is driving at 70mph going to stop tailgating?

In fact, rigid adherence to a speed limit can only exacerbate tailgating.

Please put your brain in gear before opening your mouth.

gosh - I am shocked at your rudeness! My brain is in gear. 70 mph is the speed LIMIT so I drive at 70mph :0

thanks for your response

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freedom is knowledge of one's necessity

I feel sorry for the ambulance crew that has to dig you out of the central reservation when you are stuck in the blind spot of a left hand drive lorry for a week, and it suddenly pulls out on you.

Thats one of my problems with the scamerati - I consider accelerating to pass a potentially difficult situation safer - cameras do not allow this, whilst a traffic officer would see it as safe.

More traffic cops, less cameras. In fact since the Wiltshire and Swindon Scamerati released their M4 propoganda, I haven't seen a single traffic patrol

_________________
"Are you sh**ing me?"
"John Spartan, you are fined one credit for a violation of the verbal morality statute."

Hi there - sorry I am not too sure what you mean by this - I overtake at an legal speed and I am aware of what the other traffic is doing. I then move back into the inside lane.

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freedom is knowledge of one's necessity

Ever seen a left hand drive lorry suddenly pull out on someone? I have, and its very scary. You can drive defensively, but during high traffic flow you may well not have anywhere to move to (due to a stream of autobahn expresses in the right hand lane). Therefore, sometimes the only feasible option would be to accelerate through the danger zone in much the same way as when performing a normal overtake on a single carriageway. Stretching on from that, would you exceed the NSL when overtaking on a single carriageway?

I personally am aware of every vehicle that can threaten me or impede my safe progress. Can the same be said of other drivers fiddling with their CD players, phones, Sat Navs, or just half asleep on autopilot?

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"Are you sh**ing me?"
"John Spartan, you are fined one credit for a violation of the verbal morality statute."

Sorry for my apparent rudeness, it's just that I've heard that argument about a zillion times now and nobody's yet been able to give me a straight answer to the question: how are cameras/sticking to the limit going to stop tailgating?

Cheers
Peter

I've seen (and even had a few near misses myself) from cars, trucks (regardless of left hand or right hand drive) not checking their blind spots and changing lane into the position occupied by another vehicle. One time involved a caravan 100 yards or so in front of me which then danced merrily around the carriageway and took several adjacent vehicles out with it as it broke up!

All these incidents have happened whilst travelling at or under the 70mph speed limit. I have yet to see an accident occur when conditions allow speeds of 80 or 90 - these are just the sort of conditions that result in many NIPs generated by the speed camera partnerships!

It is high time that the law was reviewed. Certainly an 80mph limit on the motorway would be a step in the right direction where appropriate. Perhaps even 90 in places. Coupled with this use of the media to educate drivers on good driving practices (a properly set limit should be the maximum speed to aim for). Currently this won't happen due to the anti-car stance of the government who want to tax and fine us every which way!!

I do a lot of driving - both professionally and for pleasure. I would not be here if I subscribed to dangerous or careless driving.

May this protest gain strength! Look at what the French accomplish!

The 'experiences' PR won't go out until Sunday or Monday.

So keep those experiences coming please!

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

I travelled M4 west-bound this morning from J13 at Newbury to the M5 - approx 07.20 to 08.35. No Camera vans sighted at all between J14 and J18; no Police patrols either - no change there.

Experianced many instances of tailgating, the most concerning being a Black Volvo V40 estate car that came within approx 4 feet of my rear bumper whilst I was doing about 65-67mph and about 2 seconds behind the vehicle in front of me. Incident occurred whilst I was passing under the J15 bridges. As I accelerated to try and gain some space between myself and the Volvo, the Volvo just "came along with me". Please note the the 4 ft separation distance is an estimate, but I could not see the top of the Volvo's head-lights in my rear view mirror and I drive with the seat at or very near its highest position.

ISH

I believe there was A fatal accident at junction 14 on tuesday or wednesday this week they may be slowing down the traffic but it isn't stopping (serious) accidents On times I have used since the scameraship stared it's lets raise some cash scam I have noticed traffic bunching & on occasion large box wagons overtaking in the third lane !!

Ish said >

I travelled M4 west-bound this morning from J13 at Newbury to the M5 - approx 07.20 to 08.35. No Camera vans sighted at all between J14 and J18; no Police patrols either - no change there.

(My bold)

Oh yes there were ish - just not all marked, that's all

Shame I missed that volvo though....

I use the M4 several times a week. These days, the congestion around Reading is there not just at rush hour, but also at the middle of the day. It wasn't like that 20-30 years ago. Part of it is because of lorries using the middle lane in order to gain an extra ½mph on the vehicle in the left lane, leaving only lane 3 for anyone who wants to drive at the legal speed limit.

On the 4-lane stretch east of Slough, I can't help noticing the drivers on autopilot in Lane 3. They either have a phone to their ear, or will drive with their right elbow resting on the door caps - a dead giveaway for a driver on autopilot.

The leading type of accident on our motorways is the nose to tail shunt. In my view, these are made all the more likely by bunched up traffic, which is what the perceived threat of a speeding prosecution causes.

We need HONEST traffic police. Police that actually catch BAD driving, speeding is not in itself bad driving. Examples of bad driving include

1. No use of indicators.
2. Cutting up of another road user.
3. Not moving over when a overtaking manuvore is finished(lane hogging)
4. Random braking patterns.
5. Driving at 40mph on a motorway
6. Breaking heavily when you see a police car / scamera.
7. A police car doing 56mph.
8. Fog lights on during fine daylight, only dazzeling people.
9. Full beam on during daylight hours.
10. Using your phone whilst driving.
11. Reading a book whilst driving.
12. Eating whilst driving.
13. Reading a map whilst driving.
14. Driving at 60mph (NSL) on a single lane country road can be <8ft wide
15. Driving at 30mph past my childs school


All us people that drive for a living know only too well it's people like the one's listed above that cause problems not those that drive within the capicity of their cars and of the road system. Yet these scameras cannot detect this happening and the police as it stands have no interest in pursuing these harder to prove yet much more dangerous crimes.

Could that be because of the amount of paper work involved in proving these crimes compared to speeding. Or could it be because it's a very very easy way for OUR "POLICE OFFICERS" to reach their targets.

Chris- I agree unconditionally with all your comments. Realistically there needs to be an end to this "culture of statistics" and "any conviction is a clearup" attitude that appears to govern our the upper ranks of the police and government at this time. Unfortunately that doesn't look likely to happen.

OK, I've been up and down that stretch a few times now, some of the things I've noticed are..

• Much more bunching - traffic is definitely not flowing normally
• More tailgating - although everyone appears to now do it at ~70mph
• Less attention - more drivers appear to be not concentrating on the road ahead (not noticing situations until they are on top of them)
• More people being blocked into lanes - in the past most drivers would co-operate with each other to a degree. For example one driver may see another driver approaching another vehicle in the lane to their left, and depending on their own position either slow down slightly to allow the driver out, or if committed to the overtake would accelerate temporarily to complete the overtake swiftly and also create a gap behind to allow the other driver out behind without causing them to need to brake. Now, once people are committed to the overtake they seem to just continue at the same speed taking longer to complete the overtake and the potential overtaker now has nowhere to go (compounded by the now steady stream of cars).

Regarding the actual cameras I've only seen 1. There are many bridges between 15 and 17 that have 2 speed camera warning signs on the approach to the bridge, with a corresponding 2 warning signs on the approach to the bridge from the other side of the road. I (naively) believed these would be the only "sites", however the 1 camera I've seen was between J15 and Membury Services. Approaching from the east you would not have seen any camera warning signs at this point, and he was sat looking up a slight gradient obviously picking people off as they came onto the start of the downhill stretch.. The vans are not exactly the most obvious either - no camera symbol just a small "Think!" symbol in blue-on-yellow (you can see one here - just ignore the wording )