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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 18:29 
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1375553/Death-dangerous-cycling-New-offence-crackdown-bikers.html

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Ministers are considering introducing a new offence of causing death by dangerous cycling.

It would mean cyclists who kill or seriously hurt pedestrians would be prosecuted in the same way as drivers.

A Bill is to be presented by Tory MP Andrea Leadsom, who has campaigned on behalf of a family whose teenage daughter was killed by a reckless cyclist.

Rhiannon Bennett, 17, was walking with friends in Buckingham in April 2007 when cyclist Jason Howard approached the group at speed, yelling, 'Move! I’m not stopping!'

He was travelling so fast the group had no time to act. He hit Rhiannon and knocked her over, and she smashed her head against the kerb.

She was taken to hospital with head injuries and died six days later.

Magistrates later convicted Howard, then 36, of Buckingham, of dangerous cycling and fined him £2,200.

By comparison a motorist convicted of causing death by dangerous driving faces a maximum penalty of 14 years in jail.

[Edited to add the ongoing story ....]
Detailing the case in the Commons Mrs Leadsom, MP for South Northamptonshire, said: ‘There needs to be a charge that reflects the seriousness and consequences of a cyclist’s actions.’
New legislation: Ministers are considering introducing a new offence of causing death by dangerous cycling

New legislation: Ministers are considering introducing a new offence of causing death by dangerous cycling
Enlarge Jason Howard

Cyclist: Jason Howard, 36, rode his bike into Rhiannon Bennett on the pavement causing her death

A Department of Transport spokesman said the Bill was being considered, but did not confirm that it would be supported by the Government.

Road Safety Minister Mike Penning said: ‘I have met Rhiannon Bennett’s family and have the deepest sympathy with them.

‘I am clear that everyone who uses the road, including cyclists, has a responsibility to behave safely and with consideration for others.
‘My department will consider the merits of the proposed Dangerous and Reckless Cycling Bill in consultation with the Ministry of Justice.’

So-called ‘Lycra louts’ are criticised for cycling on pavements, and ignoring the rules of the road by weaving between vehicles, switching lanes without giving notice and cycling through red lights.
The aggressive and dangerous antics of some cyclists were criticised in a report by MPs in 2009 and described as ‘Darth Vaders on wheels’ by one MP.

In January 2008, a commuter complained that David Cameron, then the Leader of the Opposition sped through a set of lights in Parliament Square in London and almost hit him.

The commuter said: ‘He kept saying, “Well, I haven’t collided with anyone, have I?”’

While accepting that such cases are relatively rare, there have been a number of examples in recent years where cyclists have not been jailed for killing pedestrians in circumstances where a motorist would have been looking at several years inside, so this seems a sensible move to balance things up.

This was another similar case.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 18:38 
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Especially when you view the video of the raising of this matter in Parliament.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-13034162

Please watch the video contained in the BBC link.

Makes sense to me!

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 12:31 
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Surely this should have been simply a manslaughter charge?

What next, death by dangerous jogging?

Death by dangerous walking?

Death by dangerous knifing?


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 14:50 
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Homer wrote:
Surely this should have been simply a manslaughter charge?

This particular case ("Move! I’m not stopping") is no better than any 'death by dangerous driving' offence.

So if your logic is followed (I'm not saying your logic is wrong) then manslaughter should also be applied instead of 'death by dangerous driving'.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 15:55 
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Steve wrote:
So if your logic is followed (I'm not saying your logic is wrong) then manslaughter should also be applied instead of 'death by dangerous driving'.

It does raise the question as to why we have the separate charge for causing death by use of a motor vehicle. I have wondered whether it goes back to the days of horses, where a distinction was drawn because the driver or rider by definition could not be held 100% responsible for the behaviour of the horse.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 18:07 
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I'm with Peter on this one. Just because one applies to motorists, it doesn't mean there should be a specific "death by dangerous..." offence applied to anyone - including motorists.
What's wrong with 'aggravated manslaughter'?

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 18:19 
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Pete317 wrote:
I'm with Peter on this one. Just because one applies to motorists, it doesn't mean there should be a specific "death by dangerous..." offence applied to anyone - including motorists.
What's wrong with 'aggravated manslaughter'?

Actually, I'm agnostic on the issue, but just curious as to why the distinction exists.

Obviously manslaughter covers a large range of seriousness, but I've read in the past that average sentences for manslaughter are considerably less than those for CDBDD. No doubt the BRAKE mob would be disappointed it wasn't classed as murder, even though there are no grounds for doing so, as murder by definition requires premeditation :x

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 19:47 
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I believe people should be punished according to their culpability and not according to the outcome.
Very often, discretion has been taken away from the courts in terms of these specific offences.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 21:34 
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Quote:
cyclist Jason Howard approached the group at speed, yelling, 'Move! I’m not stopping!'

He was travelling so fast the group had no time to act.


I wonder if he was being aggressive or trying to let them know he could not stop?

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 21:56 
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Toltec wrote:
Quote:
cyclist Jason Howard approached the group at speed, yelling, 'Move! I’m not stopping!'

He was travelling so fast the group had no time to act.


I wonder if he was being aggressive or trying to let them know he could not stop?

I don't think knowingly riding with defective brakes would have been a very good excuse.
He was riding a £5k bike, I would have thought the brakes would have been very well maintained.

It was judged that that cyclist could easily have swerved or braked. The below are from various articles:

"...told police he thought a shout would be enough to avoid the collision."
"He told police he thought a warning would be enough and ­decided not to brake."
"The defendant admitted, when interviewed, that he could have braked or stopped when he first became aware of the pedestrians."
"Howard admitted he could have avoided Rhiannon if he had slowed right down."
"Howard ... said he was aiming for a gap between Rhiannon and her pals."

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 22:58 
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Thanks Steve, while maybe not aggressive he sounds pretty reckless.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 17:31 
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Steve wrote:
Homer wrote:
Surely this should have been simply a manslaughter charge?

This particular case ("Move! I’m not stopping") is no better than any 'death by dangerous driving' offence.

So if your logic is followed (I'm not saying your logic is wrong) then manslaughter should also be applied instead of 'death by dangerous driving'.


I've never seen the point of that offence either.

As far as I am concerned causing death by ......... is all the same and could be covered by one law.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 22:13 
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Presumably it won't actually make that much difference to the victims unless we bring in mandatory 3rd party insurance for cyclists? That, of course, is going to need some sort of administrative arrangement...


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 09:59 
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I believe the "Death by..." laws for motoring were brought in because jurys were reluctant to convict drivers of manslaughter for having "accidents" which resulted in deaths. IE a political fudge because the current (then) laws were not delivering the convictions that the politicians wanted.

Politicians do this sort of thing all the time, Unfortunatly

(Fast forward to removal of right to silance, legal requirement to "confess" in the case of speed cameras, effective removal of presumption of innocence in the case of Rape and child assault cases etc etc)

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 11:53 
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Within the span of my driving career, the charge was "causing death by reckless driving", and the maximum sentence was 2 years, not 14 as now. It's now getting close to the point where "being involved in a fatal accident even if it wasn't your fault" merits a prison sentence :x

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 20:55 
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Too true, it seems ordinary folk do get persecuted far more than proper criminals. That said, I've encountered a lot of aggressive cyclists in my time.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 02:50 
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:welcome: dob36carl

If cyclists and pedestrians were more aware of 'passing guidelines' would this not make the situation 'safer'? If there were a rule that all cycles pass on one side of the path / track etc then peds when starting their walk will 'know' which side to be on and cycles will also use the 'correct' area ... when no one else is about then the use of the whole area is expected ... ?

He can obviously see that slowing ought to have been the action taken and I am sure he regrets not taking this action ... :(

Edited :)

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 17:02 
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:) Thanks Admin!

Yes, I think that is a good idea. However, I can see councils painting bright yellow lines all along our pavements! Any excuse to make our towns and cities look even more hideous :soapbox:


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 10:01 
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SafeSpeedv2 wrote:

If cyclists and pedestrians were more aware of 'passing guidelines' would this not make the situation 'safer'? If there were a rule that all cycles pass on one side of the path / track etc then peds when starting their walk with 'know' which side to be on and cycles will also use the 'correct' area ...


As someone who uses shared paths (mostly on a bicycle) a lot I would say it is much easier than that.

Pedestrians stick to whichever side you are on and don't attempt to move out of the way unless you are blocking the whole path.

Most of my near collisions have been someone walking along who decides to move over the other side of the path to "let me through" just as I move over to go around them. Of course there is never any danger of an actual collision since I am riding within a speed at which I can stop in the distance I can see to be clear and reasonably assume will remain clear. I also assume everyone else is an idiot, which means I do a lot of slowing down.


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