Safe Speed Forums

Evening News 24 hereOn the face of it this sounds sensible. I have reservations about any cost of a course going to line the profits of the speed camera organisations but I don't know who is running them and I hope some sensible highly experienced, Police class 1 driver as a minimum.
I think they need a 'may' in their statement, “distracted drivers cause destruction” and a 'might be' in this statement, “This campaign will remind drivers that using a mobile phone whilst driving is a conversation killer.”
Although the public overall are not stupid they realise that when they have used a phone 100 times with no 'incident' that they now of, they feel it is safe and are learning, how to use it safely at the same time.
So are phones safe to use if you are in fact paying attention because you know you are using one (and may get caught and fined if you are seen) ?
I have seen a US report that showed overall distraction can lead to problems but this is 'obvious'.
I see many people who still use hand-helds and I have yet to see conclusive evidence that show it is overall 'completely dangerous'. I think we ought to be totally concentrating on those that are acting dangerously on the roads, this maybe when using a phone or any other distracting activity, but catching those in the act of a dangerous action than just 'merely' a technical infringement usually fails to work. There are few facts ever banded about just sweeping statements.
I have seen no evidence to show that it has properly or thoroughly been studied and little done to recognise the different ways and abilities that people use when on having a conversation or on the phone. Can we truly know that it is dangerous, when clearly many people are using phones to text and call/receive calls. Are people learning to use the phone like we have learned to use the radio ?
Is it truly dangerous as they claim - and especially if someone is paying attention ?

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Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

Pretty much if I see a vehicle wobbling around in it's lane, taking a corner badly, stopping too late etc... the driver will invariably have a mobile phone glued to their ear.


I can't quite believe the practice is being defended by you.


And frankly, if you have a manual car, to change gear you're taking both hands off the wheel, can you defend that?

I’m glad these misrepresentations come from folks who call for strict liability against drivers only, as well as generally defending prosecutions for technical infringements, and calling for even more stringent speed enforcement. Thank you weepej for another gem!

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

OT, but what the hay.

I'm for strict liability for everybody, why would you try to misrepresent me?



I presume you're referring to the criminal offence of speeding? A technical infringement in your opinion, which I think is wrong.



Yes please!

As for operating a mobile phone whilst you are supposed to be driving your car Safespeedv2 is clearly defending the practice, as they have consistently done when they post about it.

My gut tells me that texting at the wheel is both far more dangerous and far harder to detect, assuming the phone is held below dashboard level. It'd concern me to think that drivers might undertake a far more dangerous course of action in order to avoid a strict liability clampdown! I was opposed to the mobile phone laws when introduced on the grounds that applicable offences already existed in the guise of DWDC, careless or dangerous driving.

I too see some worrying driving exhibited by drivers who turn out to have their phones glued to their ears. I also see bad road practice exhibited regularly by road users not using phones. I was almost knocked down in London last weekend by a cyclist using a mobile phone, presumably perfectly legally?

When on the motorway, presumably one of the less risky places to have one hand off the controls for a prolonged period, I often "shame" drivers who are driving poorly whilst on the phone by sounding my horn whilst making the phone sign next to my motorcycle helmet and pointing to them. I am able to do this perfectly safely, so the one handed thing can't be the issue, which begs the question why handsfree kits are allowed.

Food for thought.

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Regulation without education merely creates more criminals.

In which case I apologise and retract; let's see if you are able to do the same.
Although my other points remain, so my overall point isn't invalidated.


Can you explain how asking for proper data is "defending the practice"?
I say you can't. Prove me wrong.

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

A reread of this thread will show you many SafeSpeed acolytes stating that using a mobile phone whilst driving should be a matter of choice rather than illegal, including SafeSpeedv2.

viewtopic.php?t=22060

Dunno, you'd best ask the police, taxi drivers and truckers what they do with their perfectly legal hand-held fist mics if you think its a problem. They seem to manage!

This gets better...

- you evaded my question, even though you quoted it.
- you instead referred to a year old thread, even though your prior posts in this thread guided the reader to believe the behaviour occurred within this thread.

Added to those: I see nothing from SafeSpeedv2 that implies "defending the practice" or "should be a matter of choice" in the link you gave.

And to top it all off: within the thread you linked are instances of your own disingenuous behaviour. Check out your squirmy behaviour within this post as well as your subsequent avoidance of the reasonable request

Did you see what I did there weepej? I directly linked the offending post, instead of simply giving a link and expecting the reader to dig through pages of a thread to try to find the post for themselves. Here's another example of how it is done right (one that again demonstrates your misrepresentations and evasions).

Do you really want to continue digging?

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

And wouldn't we all like a nearby police patrol to go and have a word with that motorist and advise then of their inability to be in proper control of their vehicle ?
For that motorist at that moment and with that particular distraction it led to bad vehicle control. The vehicle control and concentration are the two minimal requirements for capable safe travel.

It's not that is your mis-interpretation. What I have and still do question is the research. The problem is the complete lack of it. There is little evidence to show that it really is as bad as is claimed. They have changed and added guidelines and rules & regs to prosecute it, as if it is a 'given fact'.
I totally agree with everyone that 'distraction' causes accidents.
I know that people can carry on a conversation and be almost entirely distracted with it on one end of 'the' scale all the way through to barely distracted at all (while driving). Where is the concrete evidence to show that it is all bad.
Just because someone somewhere starts a rumour that something must be bad, so something must be done about it, does not mean that it is all as clear cut and as simple, as it is made out to be.
I am simply, and in an on-going manner, questioning the 'belief' that exists that it is 'this bad'.
There is just too little research and too little that is understood about conversations when travelling, to truly form any conclusive evidence either way. That is all that I am saying, and questioning.
For the record I use a completely hands free device when driving.

People are different and so exploring how, and to what degree, is crucial if one is to become penalised or criminalised for an action when driving / riding IMHO.
The USA had massive use of CB radios and still does, yet have they ever been considered dangerous ...?
What degree too should we or not allow for people to develop skills to enable new abilities to 'cope' ?
Is not a healthy and right to look at all that is involved, (in mobile phone use), is this not better, than simply following like a sheep - dishing out the PC and common expected response ?

Not necessarily, there are paddle levers, and shoulders might often be used to hold a phone ... how many times have you lodged a land line phone to have 2 hands free ?
Why has 'push to talk' never taken off over here ?

I can recall the original car phones, and they were often used briefly and seemingly easily by drivers without fear of danger or loss of car control. For longer or involved conversations people learned to pull over and talk in depth. Was one of the reasons to pull over though because one knew that one will come across travelling situations where one knows one will require a greater depth of concentration ? So if for short periods of a 'simple' roadway a conversation can be 'safe' then it makes sense that when the environment changes, and it becomes busier, then one cannot concentrate (probably) as required for the conditions, and thus leading to (possibly) bad vehicle control ... ? Might you consider that there maybe some truth in this ?

When a driver or rider is not in full control of their vehicle that is never good. But what if you are in full control at that time, and you are not wobbling or taking a corner badly ?
A passenger that talks to you does not make you suddenly take a corner badly so they?
So what exactly makes it bad? It is the when and road conditions and how much the motorists or cyclist allows that conversation to take over their thoughts on the task at hand (travelling).
If any road user is behaving badly then we already have rules as RobinXe points out so why do we need a mobile phone 'abuse' rule or is this simply to make the totting up easy for what crime has been committed ?

Now we are beginning to look at courses for all sorts of things so is this just another way to run road safety by accountants and earnings ?

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Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

I'm sure that programs like "24", where Jack Bauer is seen every 5 minutes driving along with a mobile in his ear, contribute to people thinking that this is alright. I'm totally against the use of hand held mobiles, CB microphones or anything else while driving.

I understand the lack of evidence that this practice is actually dangerous. In fact, you might suppose that it isn't as the accident rate dropped during the period that cellphones became universal. However, from my own experience and observation, people's control of their cars is reduced while using a phone and this must be bad overall.

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

You could equally argue that there's nothing remotely dangerous about using a mobile phone whilst stuck in a long queue, going nowhere.
But more than a few people have been fined for doing just that.

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Only when ideology, prejudice and dogma are set aside does the truth emerge - Kepler

This is because of the knee-jerk idiocy of how the law is worded. Why in God's name is using a mobile while stationary but with the engine running an offence?

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

So you think when the queue starts to move they're likely to put the phone down? Hmmm....

i often drive these days reading a map eating a big mac, nowt wrong with that

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now retired

Most of us were born with eyes and brains - generally allowing us to anticipate well in advance when the queue's about to start moving.

Besides which, what's wrong with the police then nailing those who actually do hang onto their phones once moving?
Oh sorry I forgot - much easier to stop someone who's already stopped

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Only when ideology, prejudice and dogma are set aside does the truth emerge - Kepler

Well, I pretty much disagree 100% with what you've written, but this is a corker!





Have you ever seen somebody trying to drive a vehicle with a mobile phone wedged in their shoulder?! I have, it's not a pretty sight, especially when it falls out and they dive under the dash for it!

I rarely drive on the motorways whist awake these days. Motorways are so safe that they are the obvious place to catch up on ones sleep.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

You're missing out, I tend to use my time on the motorway to do a spot of juggling, I do it safely though so it must be OK!

You know, earlier on I was going to post some story about the police arresting people walking into the bank, just in case they decided to rob it,
But then I decided against it on the grounds of it perhaps being a bit too ridiculous.
The last few postings here have demonstrated that I need not have worried.

Whatever happened to that quaint concept we used to know as 'common sense'?

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Only when ideology, prejudice and dogma are set aside does the truth emerge - Kepler