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 Post subject: interesting reading
PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 20:39 
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a little contradictory though

http://www.iam.org.uk/latest_news/motoristsdistrustspeedcameras.html

IAM wrote:
Motorists distrust speed cameras
17 June 2011

Less than a third (29 per cent) of Britain’s motorists think that speed cameras are only used at sites with a bad record of crashes and injuries, and 50 per cent think that raising money is their primary aim, according to Public Opinions of Speed Cameras, the latest research report from road safety charity the IAM.

The survey of more than 1,000 respondents also shows that support generally for speed cameras is high at 79 per cent. The highest level of support is in London (85 per cent approval) and the lowest in the North East (67 per cent).

Seventy per cent of motorists agree that speed awareness courses are a better idea than prosecution. The greatest support for this is among 17 to 24 year-olds with 82 per cent in agreement. In contrast, 65 per cent of the over-65s think they are a good replacement for prosecution.

The survey found less support for using the income from these courses to fund cameras – 48 per cent support this, but 34 per cent actively disagree. However, 17 to 24 year-olds are once again the most likely to support the proposal.

Eighty-one per cent of all respondents think that speed cameras contributed to falling road death rates over the past decade and nearly half of all respondents think that road deaths and serious injuries would increase if cameras were turned off.

IAM director of policy and research Neil Greig said: “Support for cameras is strong as is support for speed awareness training rather than fines or points.
“Prosecuting and fining drivers does not improve driving skills or awareness of the hazards of excessive speed. Training would reduce the number of casualties and prosecutions. That so many young people want this is very positive.
“Many motorists are still cynical about the aims and deployment of speed cameras and much more work needs to be done to dispel their negative perceptions. In times of cut-backs to police budgets, speed cameras are an essential part of the policing toolkit, but it’s clear that the public need reassuring about their purpose and funding.

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 Post subject: Re: interesting reading
PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 21:28 
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If only the general public were more aware of, and better understood, the illusion of RTTM

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 Post subject: Re: interesting reading
PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 22:38 
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survey wrote:
Eighty-one per cent of all respondents think that speed cameras contributed to falling road death rates over the past decade and nearly half of all respondents think that road deaths and serious injuries would increase if cameras were turned off.


I think "contradictory" is something of an understatement! So let's get this right then, 81% think they've contributed to falling death rates, but OVER HALF don't think t would make any difference if they were turned off...

I think they need to go back and robustly analyse their data again! :roll:


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 Post subject: Re: interesting reading
PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 23:32 
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Yep, aren't statistics a wonderful thing...if you don't understand them...lol

If only I had half a brain,I could do the statistics for all, the UK SCPs..lol

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.


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 Post subject: Re: interesting reading
PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 23:36 
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The scary thing is that the country is being run by people who think like this..... :loco: :loco:

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.


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 Post subject: Re: interesting reading
PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 23:42 
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And I thought it was only Greenshield who was crap at maths...

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.


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 Post subject: Re: interesting reading
PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 01:10 
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Quote:
The survey of more than 1,000 respondents


Thats as far as I got ..... without knowing anything about how the respondents became the respondents the rest might as well be a fairy story for the under 3's ..... were they in-patients at the an altzheimers clinic? advanced police drivers? Polish frogmen on holiday? people without a driving licence? wheelchair users? the terminally ill?1001 members of BRAKE? .... who knows?

Reminds me of all the sensational newspaper headlines .... Scientists have discovered .... Research has shown .... Our survey reveals .... most of it utter tripe.

And as already pointed out ... the maths are a tad suspect.

If that's the best the IAM can come up with ... they best just change the name to Insane Advanced Morons and be done with it ....

Yes I have had a couple of shandies tonight since you ask .... hic! :drink: :D

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 Post subject: Re: interesting reading
PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 09:50 
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Closely followed by:

http://www.iam.org.uk/latest_news/menmoredangerousthanwomenontheroads.html

and:

http://www.iam.org.uk/latest_news/carusedownasfuelpricesrise.html

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56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing


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 Post subject: Re: interesting reading
PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 17:10 
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graball wrote:
And I thought it was only Greenshield who was crap at maths...
Did you know four out of three people can't do maths? :D
(Yes, I know I've used that line before).

:coat:

Maybe it should be IAM crap at stats.. (See what I did there :) )

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 Post subject: Re: interesting reading
PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 00:51 
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Sad that they like the idea of running the courses to benefit one's driving (riding) ability & yet continue to promote the flawed speed camera concept!
Could it be that the courses that they are running are bringing in much needed income ?
What about the economy & RTTM (as already mentioned) influences ? !

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 Post subject: Re: interesting reading
PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 08:54 
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so they are wrong as well

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 Post subject: Re: interesting reading
PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 10:39 
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camera operator wrote:
so they are wrong as well
What's wrong with just telling the truth?

RTTM and BOS are very relevant terms and describe the underhand tactics SCP's use to justify their position.

They get away with it because of the public's apathy and ignorance of these terms.

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You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.


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 Post subject: Re: interesting reading
PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 11:06 
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SafeSpeedv2 wrote:
Could it be that the courses that they are running are bringing in much needed income ?


Funny that the courses took-off after the camera fines had to be paid into the governments bank account and not theirs.
Or am I not allowed to mention words like "corrupt" "thieves" etc ?

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56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing


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 Post subject: Re: interesting reading
PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 12:19 
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Big Tone wrote:
camera operator wrote:
so they are wrong as well
What's wrong with just telling the truth?

RTTM and BOS are very relevant terms and describe the underhand tactics SCP's use to justify their position.

They get away with it because of the public's apathy and ignorance of these terms.


its an IAM poll not SCP not Brake

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 Post subject: Re: interesting reading
PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 14:23 
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camera operator wrote:
Big Tone wrote:
They get away with it because of the public's apathy and ignorance of these terms.


its an IAM poll not SCP not Brake

The owner of the poll is irrelevant.
The misleading claims by the SCPs have pervaded well beyond the SCP domain.

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 Post subject: Re: interesting reading
PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 18:50 
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Steve wrote:
camera operator wrote:
Big Tone wrote:
They get away with it because of the public's apathy and ignorance of these terms.


its an IAM poll not SCP not Brake

The owner of the poll is irrelevant.
The misleading claims by the SCPs have pervaded well beyond the SCP domain.


that must be the most desperate post that you have ever made, have the SCP infiltrated the media as well, maybe theyare responsible for fuel rises and phone tapping, i see on pepipoo Anton has been caught in Hampshire surely here must be calls for entrapment there

what is your version of the SCP structure

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 Post subject: Re: interesting reading
PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 21:24 
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camera operator wrote:
that must be the most desperate post that you have ever made, have the SCP infiltrated the media as well, maybe theyare responsible for fuel rises and phone tapping, i see on pepipoo Anton has been caught in Hampshire surely here must be calls for entrapment there

You have read something that isn't there (in much like same way as SCPs seeing camera benefit where there's none)

To clarify for you:
Participation in the IAM poll does not mean those who took part were aware of, or understood the implications of, RTTM.

A question for you, such that you can get some perspective:
What percentage of the respondents of the IAM poll do you think were aware of, and understood, RTTM?

Given that figure isn't 100%: would the support of cameras have been lower if everyone knew about and understood RTTM?

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 Post subject: Re: interesting reading
PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 23:56 
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Steve wrote:
camera operator wrote:
that must be the most desperate post that you have ever made, have the SCP infiltrated the media as well, maybe theyare responsible for fuel rises and phone tapping, i see on pepipoo Anton has been caught in Hampshire surely here must be calls for entrapment there

You have read something that isn't there (in much like same way as SCPs seeing camera benefit where there's none)

To clarify for you:
Participation in the IAM poll does not mean those who took part were aware of, or understood the implications of, RTTM.

A question for you, such that you can get some perspective:
What percentage of the respondents of the IAM poll do you think were aware of, and understood, RTTM?

Given that figure isn't 100%: would the support of cameras have been lower if everyone knew about and understood RTTM?



no disrespect steve but IMO RTTM is a dated and boring fact

a random cluster of accidents, joe bloggs died because he was speeding, no one is speeding here now because joe bloggs is dead,

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 Post subject: Re: interesting reading
PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 00:57 
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camera operator wrote:
no disrespect steve but IMO RTTM is a dated and boring fact

At least you accept RTTM is a "fact"!

Why do you say "dated"? It is still a confounding factor that, even 6 years since being properly quantified, is still being dismissed by the SCPs.

It might be boring to you, but then judging by your interpretation: "a random cluster of accidents, joe bloggs died because he was speeding, no one is speeding here now because joe bloggs is dead,", I would say you still don't understand RTTM.
(oh and most speed cameras are installed at locations where none of the 4+ local KSI used for their justification, involved 'exceeding the limit' as a contributory factor)

My questions remain:
What percentage of the respondents of the IAM poll do you think were aware of, and understood, RTTM?

Given that figure more than likely isn't 100%: would the support of cameras have been lower if everyone knew about and understood RTTM?


Perhaps if you were to answer those, you would realise that the RTTM issue isn't "dated and boring".

<ad hominem>
Well, you were SCP staff :D
</ad hominem>

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 Post subject: Re: interesting reading
PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 08:58 
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"Survey says" is worse than an appeal to authority, it's more of an appeal to the populus, a notoriously poor source for accuracy. It is trying to portray scientific veracity without scientific rigour, and is worthless without knowing who the respondents were and exactly what they were asked.

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