Safe Speed Forums

When I read letters like this, that have been put on, and supported by our head Office, I feel that we, up here in the North West, are fighting a 'lone battle'.

From a letter to Alistair Darling, sent to RoadPeace by a member of the public:
With reference to your Handbook of Rules and Guidance for the National Safety Camera Programme for England and Wales for 2005/06, I am writing to air my disgust at the way you and your Government have pandered to the minority motorist lobby groups over speed cameras.

Your capitulation at the slightest hint of a bad headline - despite all the evidence and majority opinion is just one reason why I will not consider your party as worthy of my vote at the next election (I have already removed my patronage from the AA who also seem unable to see the stupidity of their position).

Why do you continue to condone illegal driving?

Why do you provide succour to people who make a conscious decision to endanger the lives of pedestrians, cyclists and other road users by speeding?

...If your colleagues were to follow your example, I assume that City Centre CCTV cameras would be done away with at the slightest hint of protest from drunken thugs, or park lighting would be taken down when rapists get toghethr to form a vocal lobby group to ask for darker pathways.

To most right - minded people - and even by your own Department's calculations most people in the UK support the use of speed cameras, your position would be laughable, if it was not so irresponsible.

Painting speed cameras yellow so that they were easy to spot was funny. Publicising their position was silly. Your recent instruction restricting where they can go and how they can be used is really just unbelievable.

Together with the Home Office you should encourage the police to make a big song and dance about being very happy to take fines from speeding motorists. Yes, it should go to good causes - road safety and rehabilitation of injured road victims, but we should all delight in the fact that a criminal has been rightly fined.

Together with RoadPeace, you should arrange to have each fatality site marked just so that we can be reminded daily that the car is a dangerous machine.

Together with the police, you should work out a system that enables more detection and more realistic deterrents.

And together with me, and many of my friends and colleagues, you should stand back and laugh at the illogical protests from organisations like the AA and Safe Speed. Or at least, for God's sake, stop taking them seriously.

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belladonna
'Wisdom is knowing how little we know'
Socrates

Everyone wants magic accident reducing machines. Shame there's no such thing. This is what the government has earned for us all by misrepresenting the truth about speed and accidents.

But it's GREAT to see Safe Speed get equal billing alongside the AA. That's one hell of an achievement in 4 years.

Thanks for posting it up. We'll carry on, and we will get through to enough people. It's just a matter of time.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

I am a member of the AA and Safe Speed so it looks like I have all the bases covered.

Seriously though it is a tragic shame that the “obsession” with speed has blurred the debate on road safety to such an extent. The fact that the Government has finally started see with their own eyes that the policy is failing is progress indeed. If only some of the other organisations could be more objective about the issue. Maybe this change has to come from "within".

I had a look ar the web site. I cannot see a message board of any kind....pity.

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Speed camera policy Kills

I had a look ar the web site. I cannot see a message board of any kind....pity.


I am in the process of correcting that.................our group in NW are about to launch our own website, and we will have a forum..........will keep SafeSpeed upto date.
[/quote]

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belladonna
'Wisdom is knowing how little we know'
Socrates

The reason for the placement rules isn't to help drivers. It's because unless the cameras are installed at the 'right' moment, the RTTM illusion doesn't work.



That's because when people come round to your house asking questions (presumably on behalf of the police-based safety camera partneships), which has happened to me, it takes a lot of nerve to stand up to them, tell them you regularly speed, and that oppose their activities, even when presented with video clips of dead children who were allegedly killed at 35mph. If I hadn't been a regular on Pepipoo, and hence understood what evidence is needed for a prosecution, I would have assumed that any admission of speeding or even opposing cameras could be enough to have me arrested.

So it's no wonder people tend to agree with whatever statements the police put to them.

It depresses me to read such letters, as the writers clearly fail to understand what road safety is all about.

I'm sure all the regular contributors here are very strongly committed to safer roads, but we recognise that simply enforcing the law is far from the full answer, and indeed the arbitrary enforcement of laws that are widely perceived as unreasonable may even make things worse.

Improving road safety is a long-term, subtle process - there are no magic answers. Would hidden cameras clocking drivers at 32 mph really make the roads safer? I genuinely believe the opposite.

Well done for challenging the prevailing orthodoxy, and I wish you every success in the future.

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

Absolutely. That's what I was thinking above when I wrote:



I don't see why (for example) non drivers should be able to make a worthwhile road safety judgement based on their own experience. They depend on official messages to set the standards. It's false and misleading official messages that are responsible for the mess at every level, including the beliefs behind letters like this one.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Agree - very depressing to read such misguided daftness. belladonna has our support in maintaining a balanced and fair branch of Road Peace.

More to road safety that single focus on speed.

_________________
If you want to get to heaven - you have to raise a little hell!

Smilies are contagious
They are just like the flu
We use our smilies on YOU today
Now Good Causes are smiling too!

KEEP SMILING
It makes folk wonder just what you REALLY got up to last night!

Smily to penny.. penny to pound
safespeed prospers-smiles all round! !
But the real message? SMILE.. GO ON ! DO IT! and the world will smile with you!
Enjoy life! You only have the one bite at it.

I for one, thank you for your support.

I like to think that although we here in the North West are only one of a much larger group, we can all work and run our groups independently. It is not always easy, as some seem to be very focused on their thoughts being the one and only way. A 'balanced and fair' way forward is what we are aiming for, and to look at EVERY aspect of death and injury on the roads.
Thanks again.

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belladonna
'Wisdom is knowing how little we know'
Socrates

I agree with this, before I passed my driving test, I was all for speed camera's etc.
Know I think WHAT HAPPENED TO THE GREEN CROSS CODE?
It F£$%*S me off that there is no such things a dangous perdestrians, cyclists, etc!!!- The amount of people who don't look when they cross the roads in unbeliveable !

I will stop now.

Is there a law which states all cyclists must have working lights at night?
Why is there no formal test (like the tests drivers and motorcyclists have to take) for cyclists to take before they use the roads?

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Oct 11 Birmingham Half Marathon. I am running for the British Heart Foundation.
http://www.justgiving.com/Rob-Taylor

Apologies - I am confused.

Firstly, I agree with the majority of comments here. I am saddened that the author of the letter is misguided to the extent he is to feel the need to put pen to paper. Does it perhaps stem from a tragedy from which he may be suffering (directly or indirectly) and could this be a knee-jerk from that?

Anyhow.. my confusuon: The letter was sent (presumably) by its author to Darling. How did Brake get a hold of it? Were they CCed?

It was sent to Roadpeace, not Brake.This article was added to the home page/information and news section. I quote:

* Action against perverse body count approach continues
While the brutal demand for human sacrifices before allowing safety cameras continues, RoadPeace will continue with its Against the Body Count Campaign, which is supported widely. See letter to Alistair Darling, sent to us by a member of the public and our camera poster, which can be requested.

I know we live in a free world , and each to their own opinion. But, so many people within this group believe this.
Why am I a part of Roadpeace??? Because, like I say, "Not all of us think this way", and showing so, may just help. A member and vice chairperson I might be, but 'sheep' am not.

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belladonna
'Wisdom is knowing how little we know'
Socrates

True belladonna. Tis a free world. You can be a member of an organisation and not support the leaders; point of view. Rank and file BiBs are a case in point. Sadly, some try to gag as seems to be the case from a story on the PH site and referred to on this site.

Used to be a member of BRAKE in the early days. Vested interest because of a certain series of trauma which hit hard. Distanced and eventually severed connection for a number of reasons - one being the wholesale swallowing of a single focus issue and a war on motorists in general. Am enthusiastic about my driving and cars - so this did not appeal and we walked away. There were other reasons - but not for public knowledge. Lot of things I agree with Paul over - one or two issues still pondering and a few (very few single hand count) disagree with. But I think that is a normal reaction and I sense this is your take?

However, I applaud and respect you. Takes courage to swim against a tide.

_________________
If you want to get to heaven - you have to raise a little hell!

Smilies are contagious
They are just like the flu
We use our smilies on YOU today
Now Good Causes are smiling too!

KEEP SMILING
It makes folk wonder just what you REALLY got up to last night!

Smily to penny.. penny to pound
safespeed prospers-smiles all round! !
But the real message? SMILE.. GO ON ! DO IT! and the world will smile with you!
Enjoy life! You only have the one bite at it.

I remember all those adverts, even though they were 30+ years ago for me (Dave Prowse was in them wasn't he?).


Tell me about it, I have observed 3 main types of Lemming....

1. "The elderly" - No point in blaming them for anything, there is every possibility that they genuinely haven't seen or heard you and you have to afford them 100% slack at all times.

2. "The Daydreamer" - He (or she) isn't really concentrating on their immediate surroundings, instead they have more pressing matters than staying alive to deal with (such as "did i remember to lock all the windows this morning).
While berating this type for their careless actions may make you feel momentarily good, it goes in one ear & out the other with these people (until they end up in hospital).

3. "The cocky f**ker" - These sort think they own the road and will step out in the misguided belief that you have brakes that can stop you instantaneously from any given speed.
Should you even so much as think about berating them for their foolhardy actions, be prepared for an all out slanging match (these are the sort I could cheerfully lay out without even thinking about it).

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What makes you think I'm drunk officer, have I got a fat bird with me?

Straight from the book of silly comparisons again!





Change 'motorist' to 'environ-mental-ist' and 'speed cameras' to ' a couple of trees'.


Regards


Andrew

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It's a scam........or possibly a scamola


Homer Simpson

Oh boy..when our forum gets going on our Lancashire web site, it is gonna be interesting, to say the least.
It will be good to have others that feel as we do..............won't feel so alone.

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belladonna
'Wisdom is knowing how little we know'
Socrates

If you let us know when it's up and running we'll guarantee to keep it lively . Seriously, it's nice for us petrolhead types who do care about safe driving to find someone from RoadPeace who's on our wavelength. If we can mix a little more with other RoadPeace-ers (if I can use that term) in your group it could be to everyones benefit.

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Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler - Einstein

absolutely............will keep you informed

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belladonna
'Wisdom is knowing how little we know'
Socrates

I can create a forum for you here in about three minutes flat and I'd be proud to do so. Just say the word. You can have it until yours is ready or for ever. There's a ready supply of intelligent and articulate folk here to give some traffic.

But also feel free to say 'no thanks' if you're in the least little bit worried about being independent/impartial.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

That sounds like a kind suggestion Paul, but it might be better if the new forum remains a purely RoadPeace initiative.

Best wishes all,
Dave.