Safe Speed Forums

Easy question ...if you know the answer !

Can anybody tell me :
Can SPECS cameras see in the dark ?

Also what happens if you go onto the opposite side of the road as you go through them ?.....can the camera facing your rear numberplate work out which way you're going ?.....I'm sure you can work out what I'm thinking.

ps I'm not a speeding nutcase, just a bloke who drives around on empty roads at 3am a lot !

Cheers,
RRP

I think the short answer is yes they can. Not so sure about the opposite side of the road bit, but the SPECS installations I've seen on motorway roadworks seem to have each camera covering multiple lanes so I wouldn't want to chance it myself. More importantly I think being on the wrong side of the road is always to be avoided when there's no good reason to be there. IMO the best way to deal with SPECS is to vote with your feet (or wheels?) and avoid the road altogether.

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Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler - Einstein

I was under the impression that they had infra-red "lights" each side of the camera, so yes they can. But I'm open to correction.

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Keep right on to the end of the road ...

Yes


If you happen to run in to me while you are driving on the wrong side of the road just because you were trying to avoid a camera and I am still able to walk afterwards, I would probably beat the living daylights out of you and leave you unconscious in the gutter.


The camera doesn't need to know which way you are going, all it needs to do is time you between two fixed points to calculate your speed.

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What makes you think I'm drunk officer, have I got a fat bird with me?

I think you'll find that SPECS cameras only read your front number plate, which is why motorcycles are immune.
Yes, they do work in the dark as they use infra-red.
Changing lanes probably won't help.
However, if your front number plate is unreadable due to it being dirty, partly broken with a number or two missing, or if a 'Tesco' bag has blown up and covered it then you are immune. Of course, if the plate can't be read and you get stopped by a manned police patrol it could cost you £30, but no points, for a first offence. Most police officers would probably just ask you to clean the plate, get a new one if it's partly snapped, or remove the supermarket bag if one happens to have blown onto the front of the car.
As an aside, I was recently told of a situation where one guy had, allegedly, said that someone had really upset him over a business matter and deserved to suffer some misfortune as a result. He intended to borrow or hire a car identical to the miscreants, clone the front plate and drive through several Truvelo and SPECS cameras at well over the limit late at night. He intended to do this fairly close to where the other guy lived, thus causing him untold aggrevation and expense in trying to prove himself not-guilty. If true, it's an interesting aspect to 'camera justice'. The trouble is, it could easily happen that someone could put a business rival out of business in this way by having them falsely banned. Frightening!

No correction needed.

www.speedcheck.co.uk

http://www.ukspeedtraps.co.uk/specs.htm

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

No you are not.

If your front plate is not legible for any reason, then the captured image (which also shows the drivers face) is viewed & processed by a human.

Motorcycles are no longer immune either, more & more SPECS sites now have the cameras facing both ways.

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What makes you think I'm drunk officer, have I got a fat bird with me?

As SPECS normally read your front number plate while travelling towards them, in order for them to calculate distance travelled from your rear number plate you would have to pass through both cameras on the opposite side of road. Also I'm not sure if they work in reverse. I’d be interested to know, not that I would like to try it.

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Useless laws weaken necessary laws.

And what use is that without a numberplate?

REALLY? First I've heard of it. Where did you get that from?

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Didn't they always? But I thought that just meant one camera pointing up the road for traffic coming down and one pointing down the road for traffic coming up. Far as I knew both would still only be checking front plates.

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Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler - Einstein

I THINK, but I could be wrong, that in order to gain a conviction from a speed camera image the photograph(s) being relied on as evidence must show the full number plate and must be a 'first-generation' image without any further processing or enhancement.
It would clearly be unsafe to rely upon an opinion as to what the visible letters and numbers of a plate could have been if not all are visible, especially as new cars of the same type are often sequentially numbered by dealers who receive batches of numbers to allocate.
I've often seen company cars of the same type with sequential numbering.
Here's a thought. If you have a company car and another person, with a similar car, is competing with you for promotion, why not go out and clone his plate, then drive in the same area as he does, after putting on your disguise to look like him, through several cameras. He'll lose his licence and you'll get the promotion and the better salary (only joking).

off-topic (sort of) I went through a mobile unit the other day at around 9:00PM. It was total dark. I wonder what the video would show. They must just aim between the head lights and hope for the best....

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Speed camera policy Kills

Are the videos using visible light? - 'cos if you're accidently lit up like a christmas tree with side, dip, main & fogs SURELY it would obscure the plate due to the enormous amount of light flooding into the camera & it attempting to compensate (closing aperture) would / should render the 'darker' sections unuasable without resorting to severe image processing, or it may cause massive amounts of lens flare. Just a thought....

SPECs cameras are mounted up high on gantries, well above the "focus" of even your main beams, so I doubt that putting main beams & fogs on would be a defence against them.

They use infrared light, so darkness is no problem. Not so sure about heavy fog, but under these conditions it's doubtful that anyone would be exceeding the speed limit anyway.

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“For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong.” - H. L. Mencken

I have read a few times from a fairly reliable source (on Pepipoo ) that they can only work on front numberplates due to their (secret) type approval.

I have also read some other things which strongly suggest that any speed registration device must only ever work in one direction at a time, but I have not yet seen any law on it.

If I ever drive where I know there is a SPECS system my front numberplate is coming off and sitting perfectly visibly in the front window. I will just hope it doesn't accidentally turn it's self over or get covered up as I approach each camera as that would be bad and wrong.

As proved recently Monitron Speedcurbs don't work in fog so I expect SPECS would have trouble too.

ps. If I was being pedantic I would say No, SPECS cameras can not see in the dark. That is why they have infra-red lights to illuminate your vehicle.

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Andrew.

Thanks for the replies chaps..

But how can a camera working in infra red "see" the letters of a number plate, as the plate would be giving off IR heat uniformly ? Surely black/yellow/white number plates can only be seen with visible light ?

Not necessarily. It depends on the properties of the materials.

The ‘heat’ you refer to will be at a completely different frequency (wavelength of typically many microns) which the receiver (photodiode) will not be sensitive to (up to 1 micron max) – in effect the ‘thermal’ response will be filtered out.


Not necessarily. Careful selection of the materials will give the spectral response desired.

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

Ever seen a nature documentry filmed at night? That's using infra-red light.

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Andrew.

So - bear with me while i think aloud - The area is bathed in infra-red light , as opposed to visible light for the naked eye.
Now if from the darkness ,using visible light , i shine a torch, the naked eye looking in is dazzled.
Wouldn't the same principle apply with infra-red??

But only thinking aloud.

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on