Safe Speed Forums

Well I promised to give you some feedback on my involvement with the IAM, so here it is:

This afternoon I met up with my Observer for my first observed drive, and I regret to say it has turned out to be also my last observed drive. In fact the affair can only be described as a complete disaster. All that seems to have been achieved is that I have contributed £85.00 to IAM funds, and they are very welcome to that, as I fully support all meaningful attempts to improve driving standards in this country, but I can see absolutely no future for me as an IAM Associate. I had anticipated some difficulty of course, but the reality proved to be a good deal worse than my most pessimistic expectations.

According to the notes sent to me by the local IAM Group, the first part of the drive should have been representative of my normal driving style, and not an attempt to produce what I thought the Observer would wish to see. This proved not to be the case at all. The Observer was not interested in my normal driving style. All he was interested in was selling The System in the most minute detail. Measured against this standard I have to report that I failed miserably.

My Observer was not happy with the following points:

General handling of the steering wheel.
Steering wheel grip
Too much single handed steering.
Making gear changes while steering.
Inadequate use of mirrors.
Improper use of gears.
Unsatisfactory approach to roundabouts and junctions.

There might have been even more problems, but right now I feel so demoralised I can’t remember them.

For the record, my Observer was a retired gentleman, probably a few years younger than I am, and apparently he was previously a Civil Servant. Anyhow, before we finally went our separate ways I did say to him that I did not think I could meet the requirements for the IAM test, so there seemed little point in us continuing. It also crossed my mind that if I were to continue to try and change to their way of doing things, I might end up being a worse driver than I already am, and I’m quite serious about that. I shall quite understand if some of you have difficulty with that concept.

In this context I would ask the reader to bear in mind that my system has been evolved and refined over a very long period of time and a huge mileage, and it has given very good results, and biased though I am, I would suggest that there is little sign of it failing to cope satisfactorily with practically any scenario that one might encounter while driving. In view of that it seems wrong that it should be brushed aside and totally rejected on the strength of an ‘assessment’ lasting no more than 30 minutes in which we covered little more than 10 miles.

My conclusion from this sorry episode is this:

The IAM is a long established and respected organisation, well placed to make a major contribution to the cause of improved driving standards and road safety. Even so, there is a serious problem with their image, attitude and style, and until some improvements are made they are not going to achieve what needs doing in terms of improving driver performance and road safety. This is not just my view, as I understand many other people decide against joining the IAM through such concerns, and young drivers are particularly likely to be put off by this. The relative failure of the Max Power initiative, aimed at young drivers, seems to bear this out all too well.

You may recall that after a long period during which I criticised the IAM from the outside, I came to the view that what I should be doing is joining them and trying to help from the inside, but following my experience this afternoon that approach does not seem to be workable. Nevertheless, I shall not give up on this.

The IAM has the potential to be a much stronger force in the pursuit of better driving standards and improved road safety for all road users, and especially young drivers, in whom I have a particular interest, but substantial changes to their approach will be needed if that potential is to be realised.

I am truly sorry about what has happened this afternoon, but clearly a re-think is necessary on my part, and perhaps by others. Maybe if the IAM is not willing to make suitable changes another new organisation might be needed to take their place.

Quite probably many of you will feel that the blame for the fiasco this afternoon lies entirely with me, in which by all means feel free to let me know - but I don’t think it is quite so clear cut as all that.

My best wishes to you all,
Dave.

I'm surprised, you seek to improve your driving. You're told what's wrong with your driving. Instead of aiming to fix what's wrong you just maintain not only that you're right and they're wrong but, more incredibly, that they should forget their system and instead teach your poor technique.
Does that sum it up correctly?

No, I don't think it does. It might be nearer the mark if my technique had been shown to be seriously deficient and inferior to the official version. I merely note that it is different from theirs, but surely what matters is achieving a reliable result, which is what I have been doing for a very long time.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

I'm sure plenty of people, including your former instructor, would be happy to show you exactly why your technique is deficient and inferior.

Some IAM groups are more anally retentive about gear changing and steering at the same time. It depends on when you were doing it. If it was in the middle of a bend then I'd agree it was a poor time to be doing it and the IAM observer is right. If on the other hand it was when going round a roundabout or turning out of a junction getting the next gear as you're going out then that isn't quite so bad. Steering and gear changing at the same time isn't really a good idea as it unsettles the car. It also suggests poor planning to be gear changing during certain times.

One handed steering is ok for short times but if you do it a lot then you aren't truly in control of the vehicle. You should keep two hands on the wheel as much as possible.

Try a different local group or try one of the independent further driving people like cadence, high performance club etc. If they say the same then I'm afraid you should admit your faillings however hard it may be.

I hardly feel that changing gear at lowish speed while negotiating a junction or roundabout or a bend is going to unsettle a car. With respect I think somebody would have to be a very clumsy driver for that to become a problem.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

Hi Dave,

Having read your account, I look forward to my first observed drive on Sunday with some trepidation.

I believe that the mechanics of driving are less important to safe driving than attitude; and, from the postings you have made here and on PH, I have no doubt that there is much wrong with that.

However, that is rather a long list of 'issues'. Is there nothing in any of the comments made that gives you cause to pause and think - "Well, actually that's a fair point. It would be better that way"?

Cheers.

Tim

And no mention of "speeding"

It sounds as though the observer you encountered was somewhat lacking in interpersonal skills and could have been more diplomatic.

However, the point must be made that the IAM and RoADA are essentially teaching a system of driving, as set out in Roadcraft. It is not the only way to drive well and safely, but if there are significant aspects of the Roadcraft system you can't get on with, you won't progress with them.

It is always a difficult call as to what is a matter of preference, as opposed to being good or bad.

However, separating, as far as possible, the braking, gear-changing and steering phases of a manouevre is pretty fundamental to the Roadcraft system and I would have thought it makes a lot of sense to be in the right gear before starting to negotiate a bend or roundabout.

_________________
"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

I think this sad little story represents a dramatic failure on the part of the IAM. Whatever skills Dave has, it's likely that IAM could have helped him to improve himself. But the IAM has blown its first chance.

People - at least most people - need to be encouraged to learn and improve. A barrage of criticism just won't do.

I would have thought that the first 30 minutes should be spent establishing a degree of rapport.

Dave, I hope you'll be able to ask to try another observer...

_________________
Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

I meant gear changing during a bend is unsettling rather than when turning out of a junction.

I agree with Paul here. I would approach the IAM and explain that your assessment was not conducted in the way you were advised it would be, and that you'd appreciate them trying again with a different assessor.

Some folks simply can't get along - and it could be that something in the feromones or whatever just clashed between your observer and you on the day.

Hello Dave,

Hmmm, sounds like your observer could do worse than familiarise himself with the principle of the 'bathtub curve' approach to debriefing individuals during/following a session of parcatical work, in this case driving! Sounds like he decided to pull the plug on you from the outset

On the other hand, I am moved to ask what you expected to gain/learn from the IAM, and how receptive you were to suggestions that your mileage tested method is flawed? It does after all strike me that your driving style is greatly at odds with that advocated by the organisation and looked for by its examiners; were you aware of just how much at odds your styles are before you went out on your observed run?

I'm afraid if I'd had the same experience as Dave I'd have exactly the same reaction. Looking at your list of "deficiencies" it seems that they are pretty much entirely "technique" issues rather than attitude / observation / anticipation ones.

As such, if I had to make a snap judgement based on what has been said in this thread I'd say that the instructor concluded that you were a safe driver who has maybe slipped into a few untidy or sloppy habits.

From that starting point I'd have thought that a good starting point would be to form some empathy by initially going over some of the good things, but then say that nonetheless there is scope for some fine tuning and improvement. Assuming he is looking at his own mental list of (say) 6 technical errors, then a good approach would be to then arrange six more observed drives and aim to put one issue right per drive, picking one to start with where the pupil will see a useful improvement for themselves in order to get them onside.

As Paul said, starting out with a list of nit-picking criticisms isn't the best way to get a (possibly) sceptical pupil on board.

I've been pondering about taking some form of advanced driver training myself, but I'm leaning even further away from "The Big IAM" now!

_________________
CSCP Latin for beginners...
Ticketo ergo sum : I scam therefore I am!

Hey Tim please do not be put off by my reported experiences. Do please go ahead and I wish you every success.

From your second paragraph I presume it is my attitude that you feel to be wrong, or am I misunderstanding you?

I do try to remember the various points that people make, even if at this time I'm strongly of the opinion that they're wrong. At this stage all I know is that the opinions are in conflict. In due course I might come to see that I am wrong, but at the moment I don't think so.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

As a footnote, on re-reading this thread I keep getting a mental image of Dave's observer as being the "father in law" character on Harry Enfield's show, sporting a checked tank top, immaculate flat cap and continually saying "you didn't wanna do that!"...

_________________
CSCP Latin for beginners...
Ticketo ergo sum : I scam therefore I am!

Ah yes Peter, I knew there was something I had forgotten to mention! He did note that I was slightly over the speed limits, and he seemed to take the view that no excess was acceptable at all.

I have no quarrel with the fundamental principles of The System and Roadcraft, merely the overly rigid attitude to the detailed way in which those principles are applied in practice.

As for gear changes being made while negotiating a bend or roundabout, I find I do that easily and naturally, so long as the speed is fairly low. If the speed is a bit high and we're cornering a bit harder, then I agree that's an entirely different matter.

I would be quite interested to have an alternative view of some of these matters, and I expect that leaving aside some of the rigid thinking and just concentrating on the quality of the result, there's a reasonable probability I would be vindicated, but we'll never know.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

No, Dave - quite the opposite. And you did misunderstand me, or I failed to make myself clear.

I know from your posts that you are a safety-conscious, thinking driver, and I meant to convey my belief that that is the more important part of safe driving, above 'ideal' mechanics.

When you say that some of the points made are wrong, do you mean that the driving system the IAM teaches is wrong? Or is it that you believe your system is equally good?

TripleS,location, Whitby - older than me by a few years- however in that part of the world - to those of you that have not been there - beautiful scenery - but in winter - i'd sooner be in the north of scotland - (mrs B is a boro gal, so i know the roads) .Like you , i've been surviving on accumulated skills for a lot of years - i know how you feel /think ( i think) , i sit beside kids and see problems croping up -

now JT - THINK YOU JUST MIGHT STRIKE A NOTE As a footnote, on re-reading this thread I keep getting a mental image of Dave's observer as being the "father in law" character on Harry Enfield's show, sporting a checked tank top, immaculate flat cap and continually saying "you didn't wanna do that!"...


To get to your stage ,like me - you have adopted a style( NCB counts as does the fact that BIB dont pull you , you get places fast , without danger)- possibly you're style sees more of the problems ahead than him( don't forget years count too) and you are seeing, and reacting to things ahead he aint seen .

If you've been driving m/bro - whitby area for as long as you say with a high NCB - then i would say that IAM should start listening to you---these roads are not a kiddies playground ---

_________________
lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

I know somebody who is disabled and drives one handed ALL the time.
I had absolutely no idea what a crap driver he is - he has always seemed so precise and in control at all times to me - I must have completely overlooked his lack of control.
It's not like he has an adapted vehicle or anything! He drives a manual shift - changing gear from the shoulder, since his left arm is rigid.

He is in Austria skiing at present, I'll telephone and warn his family before they set off for home!

Sorry, but dont knock it just because you dont have to or cannot do it yourself!

_________________
Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

Thanks Paul. My Observer did intimate that a run out* with their Senior Observer or Training Officer might be worth pursuing, but on further consideration I think he came to the view that it would probably not retrieve the situation.

* Actually I think at the moment it would be fair to say I've had a bit of a run-in with the IAM.

Although I like to think of myself as being a generally amenable sort of cove, I do not readily give in until I am truly convinced that I am wrong, in which case, fair enough, I'll own up and make my apologies as appropriate.

It is not rare for me to be in a small minority on some issue or other (you may have noticed this ) but I'm not worried about that. If I think the majority opinion is wrong, well too bad, I stick with my own view.

Best wishes all,
Dave.