Safe Speed Forums

I'm booked for 1pm talking about daytime running lights.

Apparently there are moves in Europe to make the use of dipped headlights compulsory at all times.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

They introduced this law in Italy about 18 months ago, and it is probably one of the most flouted road traffic laws there.

I can only imagine that there is someone lobbying for this from within the electric bulb manufacturing industry (don't quote me on this but isn't there a vast automotive bulb manufacturing base in Poland?)

Hey Paul - remember to take with you a copy of that picture with the motorcyclist obscured by the headlights of a 4x4 behind him.

For those of you that don't know, Safe Speed provides free web hosting to the UK part of "Drivers Against Daytime Running Lights" (DADRL). See http://www.dadrl.org.uk

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Is there a phone in afterwards?

Edit: contact the show during the show
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio2/shows/vine/contact.shtml

vine@bbc.co.uk


SMS: 88291 (during show)
Call: 0500 288 291 (during show)

Think it was posted on here - picture of motorbike followed by car - both with lights on - bike was almost invisible--best ad against i've ever seen - except in poor visibility.

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

Try turning the headlights off on a bike made after 2002

Moral of story was that bike with lights gets seen - till cars appear behind it also with lights on , then said bike gets lost in car lights.
You really need to see the photo to believe it --SS- can you find it ??

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

I actually support the use of dipped headlights at all times.

Aircraft carry lights to advertise their presence, so why not cars?

One cannot help but be alerted to the presence of a vehicle much sooner in all but the sunniest days, when sun reflections are brighter than lights.

Any other time, dipped headlights make a vehicle obvious from miles away, rather than a 1000yds or less on dull overcast days/rain etc.

I'm sure I will be met with extreme opposition, but that's my view. I can't think of any reason why lights could hurt? Unless someone has any ideas which I'll gladly read?

(And no I don't make or sell lightbulbs)

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Hi,
During the second world war experiments were carried out on making aircraft less visible. One way used was to place bright lights around the aircraft. These made the difference in brightness between the aircraft and the sky as small as possible. Some times this effect can make a car less visible. Has any scientific research been carried out on accident rates lights against no lights ?

Regards

Richard

Please, jamie, stop comparing the odd 'plane in the sky with the millions of cars on the road!

IF EVERYONE POSTED IN BIG BOLD CAPITALS ALL THE TIME INTERNET FORUMS WOULD BE MUCH EASIER TO READ

See the point?

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

THIS BIKESTANDS OUT
THIS BIKE IS HIDDEN

another point

_________________
lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

Yes, but nobody is objecting to motorbikes using dipped headlights. However, if all cars also used dipped headlights, motorbikes would be harder to spot, not to mention cyclists and pedestrians.

CAR CAR CAR CAR CAR BIKE CAR CAR CAR CAR CAR

is better than either of:

CAR CAR CAR CAR CAR BIKE CAR CAR CAR CAR CAR

CAR CAR CAR CAR CAR BIKE CAR CAR CAR CAR CAR

I've seen it described as a "visibility arms race", and in any arms race the weak and vulnerable come off worst.

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

"However, if all cars also used dipped headlights, motorbikes would be harder to spot, not to mention cyclists and pedestrians"

Lets try again --


THIS BIKE STANDS OUT.
THIS BIKE IS HIDDEN
THIS BIKE TOO IS HIDDEN

I was agreeing with you, to me it's folly to light up both bikes and cars - might as well paint all bikes black, make the riders wear black leathers and become invisible .

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

I suspected I'd be outnumbered.

I still disagree. I don't care what's carrying lights when I'm driving. If I see a visual target I will stay out of it's way.

I have seen many occassions of drivers pulling out of junctions or pulling out to overtake on dull days (we get a lot of overcast in Scotland) and are caught a bit short as unlit vehicles become visible much later than it's lit counterpart.

No-one wants bikers to be hurt, but why make the distinction between bikes and cars? They're all vehicles and no-one particularly wants a collision with anything.

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jamie_duff - think you're misunderstanding the issue - no one (to my reading) is objecting to correct use of lights in bad conditions, then we all can be seen.
It's the forcing of all vehicles to do so which places bikers at a disadvantage because if all lit, the bikes do not stand out in normal conditions. see how easy the red bike stands out in my last post against the black text ,then compare the red bike in the red line of text

_________________
lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

Yes I see your point Botach, thanks

I think I'm still missing something, unless you're talking about heavy town traffic and multiple lanes - in particular, looking in wing mirrors to see bikes.

Otherwise, I fail to see the relevance on the open road.

I guess where I'm coming from is that round here the weather is pants more often than it isn't. Maybe thats an exaggeration but pants weather is still very common, yet sooooooooo many drivers think that lights are to let them see where they're going, so don't light themselves up. Note that I'm talking mainly about NSL single carriageways mostly. My eyesight is pretty decent, yet I'm still uncomfortable at the distance (or lack of) that vehicles become obvious.

Even on overcast days spotting dark silver cars takes sharp eyes at a distance that could matter (eg if you're looking to overtake).

If there was some means of convincing the inept that they should use lights when it's a bit grim then I'd be happy to let motorbikes use lights to be different.

My own inclination is that running lights would be the lesser of two evils though??

I generally agree with the vast majority of the opinions and concepts on this forum. I'm not trying to be a pain in the ass, I hope I don't appear that way.

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Don't worry about it - this (and zip merging) are two areas where people who broadly agree on the speed issue often have strongly diverging views.

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

Thanks Peter

At least I can challenge an idea or opinion on here without having my messages deleted like the T2000 message board.

I can actually see the point now I think of having bikes stand out a bit more, now I think of them in a heavy traffic context.

Roads are a bitty quieter here so we get dull vehicles against a dull background rather than a small bike lost in a sea of cars, so I can see why there'd be a strong favour for having bikes lit alone.[/i]

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DRL are not of the same intensity as dipped beam. They have just about half their intensity, and some countries like Canada, demand them by law.
I just replaced my side light bulbs with something not more powerful, but definitely more visible in daylight, small enough not to obscure a motorbike with dipped beam on, yet bright enough to make my vehicle more visible to pedestrians or other vehicles. I use my sidelights if I think visibility is not excellent. I usually judge this quite easily as my car's instrument cluster is lit bright white when headlights are off, and blue/red when headlights are on. If I put my side lights on during the day, and I can still comfortably see the now red instrument cluster, I leave the side lights on. If I can't clearly see the vehicles behind me because of glare, I don't care if it is bikes or cars, I put my dipped beam on.
It is common sense after all.