Safe Speed Forums

Okay, as I've mentioned before - R plates over here restrict new drivers to 45mph... So before you ask why I was going slowly on the motorway or worrying about doing 70/75, there's the answer...

After having driven on the motorway in relatively busy conditions, compared to what I normally have to do, I have a few points I'd like to make and a question as well...

Right, well even tootling along at *cough* 45mph, although it was honestly more like 55 or 60, I was basically keeping up with the slower traffic... I eventually came across a few lorries, and other silly cars going too slowly in between them... Coming up to the back of the queue I decided to back off a bit, as there were cars in lane 2, and I wanted to wait for a fairly substantial space, as I wanted to try and keep the speed down as much as possible whilst doing what I intended to do... I hate being behind lorries, it's nothing against drivers, it's just I hate having low visibility in front, it's not something I like having to do, especially when I'm moving quite quickly... I don't mind in a queue of traffic going slowly... But, on the motorway, I prefer to be able to see well ahead of myself... Eventually the space I had been waiting for in lane 2 materialised... Started to speed up, indicator on, nothing changes behind, pull out into lane 2, continuing to accelerate, hitting about 65 or 70 (remembering I'm not supposed to do more than 45), I then realise, oh, this queue is really quite long, but not so long that it would cause me to cut someone up when I had to take the exit off the m'way, it was still a few miles away... When I see the length of this queue I decide I need to go a tiny bit faster, I don't want to have to sit in lane 2 any longer than necessary, so I guess I was hitting an indicated 75... Eventually, got to the end of said queue, indicator back on, move into lane 1, let engine braking slow me down a bit...

Now, would anyone else on here do things differently if they were restricted to 45? I don't see why I should have to make my journey more tense because I get stuck behind a lorry due to a speed limit that applies only to me (or so it seems when on the motorway), when I get tense I get more likely to make mistakes, and that isn't really a good thing... Yes I know I was 30mph over my limit, and I wouldn't usually do this, but on this occasion I thought it was safer to go a bit faster than slow down on lane 2, which would probably be a very very bad idea...

To the police on here, maybe this is a bad question, but if you were here, and you knew about the R plate scheme and you saw a restricted driver overtaking lorries on the motorway, doing 70ish, if I got pulled would it be reasonable for me to say - well I really don't like sitting behind lorries, it reduces my visibility, hampering my anticipation of what might be happening ahead? Perhaps that would sound cheeky, and I think that would be the last thing I'd want. I know I probably shouldn't have broken that particular speed limit, but, I was only keeping up with the traffic, to be totally honest, and well, would other people agree it would be dangerous to stay behind a lorry?

I was just asking because I'm not sure what other people would feel about this... I don't particulary want points, but I want to make driving as stress free as possible, and in this occasion this is what I felt reduced the stress. I've never really experienced being stuck behind a lorry for long on the motorway with my parents, because they are both fully licensed drivers (although technically so am I if I go to England), and they can do 70...

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Mike

I REALLY don't envy you the 45mph limit, and in circumstances such as you describe there will be times when observing the limit increases your risk.

But if you can't see enough when following a lorry that simply means that you are too close. Drop back a few tens of yards until you're happy with what you can see. There are times when following at 2 seconds is too close because of the effect on vision.

If you're planning to pass and observe the 45mph restriction, it makes sense to observe and pre-plan the entire overtaking move. You should know what space you're going to return to before you start. In this way you won't feel pressurised into driving at higher speeds because you won't be surprised by the length of the cluster.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

I'd be less concerned about being stuck behind a lorry, than having lorries stuck behind me...

My car has a "space saver" spare tyre which is limited to 50mph. I was on my way down the M3 and running on the spare, and I was keeping the speed down, as I didn't want the spare to go the same way as the one it had replaced, which was a smouldering wreck in the boot.

It was very disconcerting to see a continuous stream of artics in my mirrors approaching from behind, wondering why I was going so slowly, and pulling out to overtake me at the last minute. I don't suppose they enjoyed it much either.

mikes - from a purely common sence thing I recon you did the right thing, however I doubt your excuse would wash with the police.

I think in your situation (and I don't envy you either) I would have sat well back from the lorry and stayed in L1. Like Paul said, if you're finding your visibility is seriously reduced then you're too close. I don't particularly like being stuck behind heavies either but there are things you can do to improve the situation.

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Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.

In the US they have MINIMUM speed limits on the interstate. I must admit I have NEVER seent he use of minimum speed limits in the UK even though we have the signs for it in the highway code.

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Speed camera policy Kills

I thought there was an 'unwritten' minimum of 30mph?

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Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.

Okay, yup, I'll definetly remember that next time...

Surely if you're driving a vehicle which is allowed on the motorway (ie not a tractor, pedal bike, scooter under 50cc, etc) you should be able to do 30 anyway?

In my opinion, the drivers that sit at a speed slower than me on the motorway, without R plates, shouldn't really be on the motorway. I have passed various vehicles on the motorway, whilst doing 45.

Surely a minimum speed of 45 or 50 would be reasonable, but then it would only work until the traffic got heavy... We have a lovely junction on the way into Belfast, really really busy, Sandyknowes roundabout... Every morning there's a couple of miles tailback... I know that's not much compared to you guys, but for here it's quite a bit... And the fact that there is another tailback at the bottom of the motorway with people trying to get off...

It's also ridiculous to see how many cars there are with 1 person in them... I know I was alone yesterday, but I was only going on work experience, and only for one day, and I knew noone that was going that direction, normally I would have gotten a lift with mum, but she was away... Still all these 4x4's and other big cars going past, with a driver and nothing else... If people would car share more sensibly there would be less traffic at the junctions, and it wouldn't be as bad... Okay maybe I'm being idealistic...

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Mike

I agree. You pose a far greater risk to yourself and others around you by travelling significantly slower than the ambient traffic. To counter the argument on the 'new take on 50 everywhere' thread, if there's something wrong with the vehicle or something on board that is so delicate that you cannot maintain a reasonable pace then get off the motorway.



Obviously the minimum could only be applied when conditions permit.



It is idealistic but you're right. Its a different issue for a seperate topic I think.

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Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.

that wouldnt perchance be where all the roadworks are causing absolute chaos would it?

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Richie

SSAFA supporter
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=126025031585

Nope, it's further down the motorway This place is always bad, the other place is the westlink, and it's also terrible most of the time now...

Talking about that section of roadworks, there's a 30 limit on it now, funniest thing was they had a big dot matrix sign which said "Your speeding, xx mph"... After a few complaints they changed it to You're Speeding... Luckily we haven't got any scams on that particular road... Yet...

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Mike

Madness.

I can almost see the point of limiting you to 45 on roads other than motorways but to allow you onto the motorway and not allow you to keep up with traffic is sheer stupidity.

It's probably the fact that people do as you did which has prevented carnage.

I must say, I've never heard of any R driver getting stopped on the motorway for going a bit faster... The police tend to realise it's a silly limit, and they do understand it's dangerous, and will usually let you go without even stopping you, unless you're doing a dangerous speed, or going faster than 70...

Thing is, it's something that can't be enforced by automatic cameras, as the only thing we have is a red R on a white background, just like an L plate, and camera's are only activated at a certain speed, well that's my understanding anyway, so unless they set it at 45mph and take pictures of everyone going past and then just dump the non-R drivers... So I guess in that way, it's a good thing, because it's forcing the trafpol to stay out and about the place, automatic cameras couldn't enforce it...

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Mike

No but a talivan could.

A talivan *should* also have the power to see what's dangerous and what's a safe and appropriate speed...

Had a short trip down the M5/M2 into Belfast today, I joined on the M5, which eventually merges with the M2, thing is, Lane 1 of the M5 then effectively becomes lane 4 of this motorway with 5 lanes, and to get off the motorway (which I usually do, and it's not terribly sensible to sit in 'lane 4' at 45mph), you have to cross 2 lanes of fast traffic, ie, lane 2 and lane 3 of the M2... I did it okay today, the traffic was fairly quiet and I got a gap to cross the lanes in near enough a single movement, with no hovering around in lane 3... I wouldn't normally go that way, normally I go to the M2, because where I live I'm about the same distance from either way onto the motorway, and if you are on the M2, you have no dodgy lane switches at 45mph, but you are forced to move to lane 2 at one point because lane 1 turns to a sliproad... That can be fun too...

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Mike

Oh look. An optimist!

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Yup Just a shame it never works like it should! We don't have talivans here either, yet, we only have traffic cops...

Just something I thought about there... If there aren't speed camera signs around an area and you have a mobile camera sitting, does the trafpol have to stop you there and then? Or can they just issue you a ticket in the post? I know if there signs are there they can, but I just wanted to know about no signs... Maybe thats a more appropriate question for pepipoo...

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Mike

The signage is part of teh guidelines, which they are supposed to stick to in order to qualify that site for hypothecation. In theory they can't keep th emoney from the fines unless they stick to the guidelines. But since nobody seems to be enforcing the guidelines the partnerships do as they please.

Certainly no speed camera signs on the M62 in West Yorks where they regularly carry out mobile enforcement.

And i always thought "selective myopia " was a necessary quality in a talivan operative

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on