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PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2004 08:55 
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3564128.stm

Speed camera rules 'to be eased'

Police would be allowed to put speed cameras on sections of road where there have been no crashes, under a planned change to rules on their use.

The new rules, reported in the Times newspaper, would see the maximum distance of mobile camera sites extended from 5km to 20km.

Police chiefs said existing rules only let cameras be used after people were killed or injured.

But critics claim the cameras are merely used for revenue-raising.

Government figures show there were more than 3,500 deaths on Britain's roads in 2003, up from 3,431 in the previous year.

At the same time the number of speed camera fines reached two million.

Police will still have to show a stretch of road has a history of casualties under the draft changes.

But they will no longer only be allowed to place cameras in the immediate area where the accidents have taken place.

Richard Brunstrom, head of road policing for the Association of Chief Police Officers, told the Times: "We have a particular problem with motorcyclists slowing down for the cameras but then speeding up and dying on the next corner."

"We need to keep people's speed down along the whole stretch of road."

He acknowledged the death rate on British roads had not been cut despite there being around 6,000 cameras already in use.

"We have got cameras at almost all the identifiable casualty hotspots and yet deaths haven't gone down because they are happening elsewhere."

The RAC Foundation said speed camera rules should be more flexible, but that police should also look into other road safety measures.

___________________________________________________________

So Brunstrom says: "We have got cameras at almost all the identifiable casualty hotspots and yet deaths haven't gone down because they are happening elsewhere."

You couldn't make it up! In future, will speed camera locations be decided by a blindfolded man sticking pins in a map of North Wales!

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed


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 Post subject: More from Brunstrom
PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2004 10:55 
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http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-1215962,00.html

The source of the BBC article.

Quote:
From The Times:
Brunstrom said: “We are in danger of giving the view that it doesn’t matter where you speed as long as you don’t speed in areas where people have been killed. The whole concept of obeying the law has been diluted."


Really! No one could have predicted that outcome could they?

Quote:
Mr Brunstrom added that he had already taken advantage of the new rules, which are still in draft form, to catch speeding motorcyclists on the A5 in North Wales.

“We are hiding behind road signs and walls. We are not trying to trick people, but we are saying: ‘You don’t know where we will be.’ ”


If not a trick, maybe it's just a trap then? It seems to me that the primary intention is to covertly catch people speeding; as a result the safety message gets diluted.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2004 11:29 
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And in The Times...

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0, ... 62,00.html

Police win battle for more speed cameras
By Ben Webster, Transport Correspondent


RULES governing the use of speed cameras are to be relaxed to let police enforce the limit on stretches of road where there have been no crashes.

Police chiefs have complained that the existing rules are too restrictive and force them to wait until people have been killed or injured before they can take action.

Motoring groups have accused police of being obsessed with cameras and ignoring other, more effective ways of reducing casualties on the roads.

The number of camera fines has increased from 400,000 in 1998 to two million last year. But the number of road deaths has remained about 3,400 a year. Last year it rose slightly to 3,508.

Under the revised rules, the maximum distance covered by a ?mobile camera site? will be extended from 5km (three miles) to 20km.

Police must still prove that the route has a history of road casualties, but they will no longer be restricted to enforcing the limit in the immediate areas where the crashes took place.

Richard Brunstrom, the Chief Constable of North Wales, said: ?We have a particular problem with motorcyclists slowing down for the cameras but then speeding up and dying on the next corner.We need to keep people?s speed down along the whole stretch of road.?

Mr Brunstrom, who is head of road policing for the Association of Chief Police Officers (Apco), said that the rules had encouraged people to believe they needed to obey the speed limit only near accident blackspots.

Speaking to The Times, he said: ?We are in danger of giving the view that it doesn?t matter where you speed as long as you don?t speed in areas where people have been killed. The whole concept of obeying the law has been diluted. In Victoria, Australia, they enforce wherever and that has been more successful in changing attitudes.?

Mr Brunstrom admitted that Britain?s existing 6,000 cameras had failed to cut the overall death rate. ?We have got cameras at almost all the identifiable casualty hotspots and yet deaths haven?t gone down because they are happening elsewhere,? he said.

Mr Brunstrom added that he had already taken advantage of the new rules, which are still in draft form, to catch speeding motorcyclists on the A5 in North Wales.

?We are hiding behind road signs and walls. We are not trying to trick people, but we are saying: ?You don?t know where we will be.? ?

The RAC Foundation said it accepted that camera rules should be more flexible, but Edmund King, the foundation?s executive director, added: ?We are concerned that the police are putting all their eggs in one basket. Rather than being so obsessed with cameras, they should look at other measures to improve road safety. The answer is often to make a hidden junction safer rather than use cameras to catch drivers.?

Mr Brunstrom is also lobbying for the abolition of the rule which requires police to demonstrate that the vast majority of cars break the speed limit on a road before they can deploy a camera.

He believes that this prevents forces from targeting roads where the danger comes from the occasional reckless driver breaking the limit by a large margin.


There have been 400 crashes on the A127 in Essex in the past three years, many involving young people in sports cars driving well above the speed limit. But the road does not qualify for camera enforcement because the average speed is not high enough.
====================================

Compare the paragraph that I've italicized with:

http://www.safespeed.org.uk/rules.html

Perhaps they are listening? And panicking? And fumbling around in the dark?

Notice also that they are admitting to deaths due to "race away".

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2004 12:39 
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SafeSpeed wrote:
In Victoria, Australia, they enforce wherever and that has been more successful in changing attitudes.


Going off topic here, but why on earth would speed limits need to be enforced 'wherever' in Australia? I can't imagine the roads being very dangerous out there, with several thousand miles from one house to the next (exaggeration? :P) and enough space to construct nice straight, wide roads. Mind you, I've never been there, so perhaps they are very dangerous - wallabies running all over the place, or something?

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Caught in the rush of the crowd, lost in a wall of sound..


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2004 21:20 
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mike[F] wrote:
Going off topic here, but why on earth would speed limits need to be enforced 'wherever' in Australia? I can't imagine the roads being very dangerous out there, with several thousand miles from one house to the next (exaggeration? :P) and enough space to construct nice straight, wide roads. Mind you, I've never been there, so perhaps they are very dangerous - wallabies running all over the place, or something?

For 95% of the country that's undoubtedly true, but in terms of where people actually live Australia is one of the most urbanised countries in the world.

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2004 17:00 
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PeterE wrote:
You couldn't make it up!


Evidently, the toe-rag has made it up. And people will believe him because he is in a uniform.

All idenfifiable sites? I have access to the police accident database in several counties and this is rubbish. They have 5000 camera sites. 3500 road accident deaths last year. Safety Cameras reduces them by only 100 last year. Do the maths Brunstorm!


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