Safe Speed Forums

Mike Keegan reports in MEN - 11 October.




Ye Gods .. in the name of "road safety" on a road which was "identified as the accident hot spot in Manchester Centre"

St Mary's Gate in Manchester. They decided to install "rise and fall bollards" after identifying this road as "danger"

They have sensors which detect buses and allow these through and then the bollard rises up to bar cars and bikes even. Not sure about bicycles Though critical mass might be "interesting" to observe here


But.. they don't - er - work in a safety orientated fashion...

On Monday .. A First Bus BUS got marooned when the bollards shot up in front of it. One second later and the bus driver would have had this up his bottom (I jest not ... )

On Monday a woman in a brand new 4x4 came close to losing her baby girl when - as stranger to the city - she followed the bus and the bollard shot up through the chassis of her car - narrowly missing her daughter.

On Thursday - a disabled driver spotted a disabled bay beyond these bollards .. and drove through to get to the parking bay


She had seen the bollards and asked via an intercom if she could be allowed to drive through Just as she finished the call ... the bollard shot up in front of her.. and damaged the front grill of her. car.

Apparently these bollards work between 11 am and 7 pm seven days per week - and there have been reports before in the MEN that cars have entered just before 11 am and been marooned and even harpooned in the past.

Jobsworthy councillor apparently car hating zealots claim drivers "tailgate the buses to use the road way and should be prosecuted for undue care and attention for driving in the short stretch which I understand to be near to the M&S store from the paper.

[quote=MEN comment"]

The telescopic bollards are getting a fearsome reputation as the bullies of Manchester City Centre. They added 4 more victims in just 5 days.

The council's stance is that drivers breaching the rules are getting the summary justice "they richly deserve"

However, the evidence suggests that the system urgently needs to be re-appraised. One victim believes these will kill someone one day.

We cannot believe that all of the many motorists who fell foul of these bollards were too stupid or too intent on taking an unauthorised short cut - which led to a very expensive crunch of metal on metal

There is ample opportunity for human erroron the part of those believing they can pass freely through St Mary's Gate

At certain times of the day - drivers can use this road Bus drivers usually pass unhindered - but as today's story and picture shows - this is not the case either.

The council must go back to the drawing board on this. Too many people have been stumped by these bollards for us to accept this is a case of human fallibility or deliberate intent to do something illegal

Better signage is not enough. A radical change is required

It is time that Manchester's bullyin bollards were given a lesson in better manners

[/quote]

Wow!

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I'm appalled that these things are still in use. There was a big newspaper story very like this about 5 or 6 years ago when a woman's car was wrecked by these awful things and she was nearly killed: I assumed that in our health and safety society that they had been discontinued after that. Obviously not.



Did they actually say that? It is obvious that a lot of these victims just make a mistake: they see the bus go through and quite fairly assume it is an open road.

Even if all the drivers are deliberately breaking the law, it is very well established in this county that you can't set traps for people like that. Loads of people have been prosecuted for setting traps for burglars etc. If they really said that quote the council should be prosecuted.

If automatic bollards are necessary, sure it's obvious that they should have the sort of safety system that stops lift doors chopping people's arms off. To have solid lumps rising irresistably out of the ground is obviously dangerous. I'm rather surprised that anyone would consider installing something like that at all in today's litigious society, let alone in a publc place.

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Peter Humphries (and a green V8S)

sorry... these things really rise at such a rate to 'shoot up' through your chassis? or skewer people?

the only ones i've seen in operation are extremely slow & combined with lights & audible warning.

There's no two ways about it - rising bollards are an abomination.

Hydraulic jacks coming out of the road? It's no more and no less than a booby trap.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
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They have - or at least used to have - these nonsenses in Cambridge. Are they still in service there?

A news story with photos:

Car wrecked by pop-up bollards

I've not seen these as I hardly ever venture in Manchester centre....(and if I do I get the bus as I hate driving round the area). These things do seem ridiculous though. I'll agree that IF they are well signed with audible warnings then I think you'd have to be pretty stupid trying to drive through. However, the fact they are there to start with is bloody stupid and dangerous in itself. Surely if the council insists on having these things, (and I don't know why they do), then there should be some kind of light or weight sensor on them that can prevent this sort of thing. What happens if a pedestrian is crossing the road and steps on one as it starts to rise?

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Why can't we just use Common Sense?

the comments are interesting.... re: audible warnings & huge signs etc.

Reading those comments, I'm stunned by the black and white rigid thinking that people suffer from. Someone claimed that a man was killed by these bollards, and whether it's true or not, people are actually saying he deserved it for driving on a bus route!

That link seems to be broken at the moment. A DNS search for www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk returned "unknown host". A search from www.manchesteronline.co.uk found a hit, but this again failed as it couldn't find www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk

Perhaps the site has been destroyed by a pop-up bollard.

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Brian

Manchester City Council seem determined to make driving through the city centre as frustrating as possible. The only remaining north-south through route, Deansgate, has been reduced to near gridlock by careful phasing of the traffic lights so that traffic movement is almost completely prevented. Most other routes through the city centre have been blocked off altogether.

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Brian

Works for me, looks like you (or your ISP) have a problem.

Cambridge has had these infernal things for ten years or more. Indeed, one day I saw a poor chap get the front of his car destroyed by one. Of course he was a visitor to the city and was caught out for the "folly" of assuming that the road ahead was clear because a taxi had just driven down it.

It makes you wonder what's next, doesn't it? "Hey, that's a bus lane h's driving down - shoot his tyres!"

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isnt that "obstruction of the Public Highway"? and Illegal

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Welcome to the UK, the Land of "Selective Freedoms"

And it seems to be 24x7 gridlock they've created - was travelling along Deansgate in a taxi in the early hours a few days ago, yet it still took forever to get through the gridlock. It seems to be a common policy throughout Manchester, (probably throughout the country), to phase traffic lights to cause as much congestion as possible. Take Princess Road as you head towards the centre. 40mph DC with Gatsos and even a Monitron now. You set off from one junction, stick to 40mph and as you approach the next, the lights change to red. And this happens all the way along. It appears that even if you do what they want and stick to the speed limit, they'll still do what they can to hinder your progress.

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Why can't we just use Common Sense?

Photos from Manchester Paper. I've never driven around here so do not know what signage or audible warnings are given. Brother, sister and even IG's brother who's based with GMP say they have never heard any warning signs when shopping on foot in the M&S and nearby shops, and they did wonder about the signs being visible - particularly if a car was following the bus.






scan of original story

and the Manchester Editorial's comment on the story in which he appears to say that the council's stance seems to be the that the "drivers get the summary justice they richly deserve"


I gather there is much complacency and sel congratulations from these apparent idiots in the town hall.






Hit the resize button twice I think on the first two...

Edited with hopefully clearer scans!

Think the photos show how dangerous these things are. No so called safety or enforcement should place people's lives at risk nor cause write-off damage to personal property.

I am not allowed to put barbed wire across fencing .. have been told that I cannot put an electrical charge through my gate to shock away burglars - and if I clear my pathway of any snow in winter - I have to grit it because if someone fell on any ice patches on my property - I'd be liable. So.. if I have to be mindful of safety to others on my own PRIVATE .. PAID FOR.. 100% OWNED BY ME AND WILDY ..land... then somehow I think there is more obligation by those responsible for any public road or property too - regardless of whether the person noticed a signpost forbidding access or not. I am pretty sure that if I erected such bollards on my property - all hell would be loose if any unsolicited caller's vehicle were damaged.

_________________
If you want to get to heaven - you have to raise a little hell!

Smilies are contagious
They are just like the flu
We use our smilies on YOU today
Now Good Causes are smiling too!

KEEP SMILING
It makes folk wonder just what you REALLY got up to last night!

Smily to penny.. penny to pound
safespeed prospers-smiles all round! !
But the real message? SMILE.. GO ON ! DO IT! and the world will smile with you!
Enjoy life! You only have the one bite at it.

Welcome to the future - automated Judge Dredd - 'misbehave and your car will be crushed'.

And to think if I put a sign on my front door "warning, gun inside, burglars may set it off" I'd be surrounded by 150 armed police.... (even if it did have a flashing light)

Still - this is Council v Motorist and of course the laws don't apply there

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Surely any engineer would see that safety comes first and would make sure the bullard's upwards force is minimal, so even a human could push down a bullard raising, until it got into into the fully raised position?