Safe Speed Forums

What is a loophole?

And perhaps more to the point are there any genuine ones?

A genuine loophole has the following characteristics:

- it is possible by behaving in a certain way to legally avoid the law.
- it usually happens where two strands of law meet and one hasn't appreciated the subtle significance of the other.

The 'unsigned forms' thing was a genuine loophole. On the one hand legislation didn't require the form to be signed, while on the other hand if the form wasn't signed it couldn't be used as evidence in court. This loophole was closed in Engalnd and Wales in a High Court case in 2004.

Most of the defences offered by 'Mr Loophole' Nick Freeman, are actually technical ones and not loopholes at all. If the law requires certain behaviours, signs, evidence, procedures or documents and the Police/CPS fail to observe the precise requirements of law then a technical defence may be effective.

The technicallities of law are essential to law itself. Take the 14 day NIP rule as an example. If you got a document 3 years later demanding to know who was driving at a certain time on a certain date three years earlier it might well be quite impossible to determine the driver. In this way such limits ensure that the defence has a fair chance. And there must always be fair chances.

The law quite rightly attempts to resolve infinite shades of behaviour into black and white questions. Sometimes it is necessary to resort to a technical definition to do so. This is how it is possible to be 'not speeding' at 30.00mph but 'speeding at 30.01 mph.

But justice cannot be black and white - it requires human judgement to resolve the impact of those shades of grey that the law seeks to remove.

I think I'm starting to ramble...

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

I think you're proably there or thereabouts.

Some would say a loophole is a facet of law that allows you to 'get away with it'. the 14 day rule for example but that isn't the case. That is simply part of the law.

Another example could be civilian scammer operator's eveidence not being admissible. If it is proven to be the case that wouldn't be a 'loophole' it would be the police and SCP's not following the rules.

In the news today..



Police To Target "Loophole" Drivers


also in a different note...

Following reports that suggest over 500,000 drivers have broken the law by asking other people to falsely accept their speeding fines

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Speed camera policy Kills

Keeping things simple, I'm a firm believer in the 'spirit of the law' whilst the law does need to be laid down in black & white.

But enforcement these days isn't done on a 'spirit of the law' basis - it's automated, non-discretional technical offences.

I wonder if this is why people will seek a 'technical' defence, especially since their 'crime' was not at all endangering?

I'm starting to ramble too...

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Pecunia Prius Equitas et Salus

I would agree that "spirit of the law" is being broken on both sides.
people are abusing a broken yellow line to park for free every day. The same way camera vans are detecting from the wrong side of a duel carriageway.

I also think there are absolute defences (Iwas not speeding, the sign was not clear/there) and technical defences , one of the signs was clear but not legal),
loopholes tend to be pre-meditated. Such as registering your car at a PO box.

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Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code

Did that also close the one in Yorke's case where he didn't fill out the form himself? I couldn't find anything about it on the page you have this on Paul, only the unsigned bit.

After listening to Medd Hughes the other night, there is no such thing as a loophole ( unless you're driving a police vehicle )

Why else would he wax so lyrical trying to persuade us otherwise ( as Supertramp quoted elsewhere "That one was so oozy that my pet rottweiler started licking the TV "

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on