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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 08:37 
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Rhythm Thief wrote:
I cycle a lot, mostly to work and back (maybe 100 miles a week, sometimes a bit more). There are no cycle paths of any sort, and I wouldn't use them if there were. I'm cycling to get from a to b, not to fanny around looking at the scenery with my family. I ride at an average of nearly 20mph, with a top speed of getting on for 40. I can't do that on a cycle path.
A cyclist's place is on the road, not on some funny coloured tarmac pretend road covered in broken glass and dogshit and with give way lines every fifteen yards.


amen :wink:

my current twice a week bike commute takes me to 80miles a week.
lovely combination or urban & rural roads.
its on an old MTB with panniers at 15-20mph depending on whos riding with me that day.

the two cycle lanes where they exist at either end of the journey are to be fair, pretty good as cycle lanes go: segregated, relatively clean & well marked. both involve a significant manouevre to enter and leave and end with a give way 90degrees to the traffic.

i could go on :D


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 Post subject: Re: cycle lanes
PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 16:31 
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nedsram wrote:
It's best for cyclists to avoid cycling too near the kerb - 30 cm (1') is the recommended distance.


Who recommends that?


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 Post subject: Re: cycle lanes
PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 00:15 
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Ru88ell wrote:
nedsram wrote:
It's best for cyclists to avoid cycling too near the kerb - 30 cm (1') is the recommended distance.


Who recommends that?


Per Cycle Craft -

page 59 wrote:
secondary position is about 1 METRE (3 feet) to the left of moving traffic lane if the road is wide - but not more than .5 metres (one and a half feet) to the edge of any road. Riding too close to the edge would leave you with no room for manoeuvre in any emergency, whilst increasing the need to make unpredicatable movements which could lead to a crash. You might also have to endure the discomfort of darins, edge damage and debris which accumulates at the side of the road - and there is no reason why whou should experience more discomfort than others. Riding too close to the kerb can make you difficult to see for drivers coming out of side roads and drives.

Only on long stretches of road where there are no side roads, drives and you are riding very slowly up a hill - should you allow yourself to dride further to the left than the secondary riding position, but always keep at least one and half feet (0.5 metres) from the edge. Conversley if you are riding fast - keep further out.

On lightly trafficked road where you use a primary riding position, keep aware of the conditions behind you- with both eyes and ears. Always check behind you when you see a hazard ahead. As soon as you sense a vehicle following you, plan your move to the secondary position so long as it is safe to do so. You should make your move niether too early nor too late - but gradually in a way that causes no inconvenience to another road user.

On busy roads - it will be necessary to keep to a secondary as it is ratehr tiring to keep oscillating back and forth and it will just confuse other road users


Ah! Wise words :wink:

Pity - like the other good books in the "Craft" series .. only read and taken to heart by true enthusiasts.
:wink:
Certainly never read by those who design Cycle Lanes :roll:

Just don't get me started on Ambleside FGrrrr! Pleased to note they have not refreshed the worn paint. Hopefully - they won't bother..

They are probably sick of my letters. :hehe: to date ... :wink:

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 10:59 
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Dusty wrote:
Of course in my day (Back in the Dark Ages) you had schools doing cycling proficiancy (With a strong hint that if you hadnt passed the test you shouldnt cycle!) and the Tufty Club (Anybody remember that? Its a bit before Green Cross Man!)

Nobody seems to do this anymore (Or so it seems :cry: )

At my primary school, you couldn't use a bike to cycle to school unless you'd taken the Cycling Proficiency Test.

Which was all well and good, except that they ran the CPT with very limited places, and, unless you were one of the favoured few, you didn't get onto it, ergo you couldn't ride to school.

What with that, and anti-packed-lunch discrimination, I think I honed a lot of my anti-authoritarian rebel skills at quite an early age thanks to that school! :)

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 Post subject: Re: cycle lanes
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 10:34 
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Mad Moggie wrote:
Ru88ell wrote:
nedsram wrote:
It's best for cyclists to avoid cycling too near the kerb - 30 cm (1') is the recommended distance.


Who recommends that?


Per Cycle Craft -

page 59 wrote:
secondary position is about 1 METRE (3 feet) to the left of moving traffic lane if the road is wide - but not more than .5 metres (one and a half feet) to the edge of any road. Riding too close to the edge would leave you with no room for manoeuvre in any emergency, whilst increasing the need to make unpredicatable movements which could lead to a crash. You might also have to endure the discomfort of darins, edge damage and debris which accumulates at the side of the road - and there is no reason why whou should experience more discomfort than others. Riding too close to the kerb can make you difficult to see for drivers coming out of side roads and drives. <snip>



Thanks for that MM. One foot from the kerb is far too close in my opinion - I never ride like that.


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 Post subject: Re: cycle lanes
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 11:37 
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Ru88ell wrote:
Thanks for that MM. One foot from the kerb is far too close in my opinion - I never ride like that.


One factor that makes it essential that hasn't come out is that you have to steer to balance. Granted the steering movement (and track change) is small for an experienced cyclist, but it's always there, and it always takes some room.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 11:22 
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You end up steering to aid balance, not sure it's intrinsic.

But anyway, just wanted to add to the criticism of cycle lanes - as said, they are useless to cycle along quickly in almost all cases (and if they aren't it's because they just follow the road anyway), and they encourage car drivers to hate cyclists both for having so much space allocated to them even when no one's cycling and for then not using that space when they want to make progress.

The requirement for different types of vehicle (ped/cycle/car/lorry) to use the same space has to be one of the key elements for keeping everyone alert and considerate, and attempts to separate have lots of unhelpful side-effects.

Ian


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 12:32 
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There needs to be the ability for faster traffic to pass slower traffic.

So in free-flow, motor vehicles should be able to safely pass cyclists.
And in jams, the cyclists should be able to safely pass the motor vehicles.

Cyclists need to be able to also pass buses when they are stopped at bus stops and also need to be given passage to the front of the queue when traffic is stopped at a red signal.

In any long stretch of a segregrated cycle path, it is also necessary for there to be space for cyclists to overtake slower cyclists.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 21:20 
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The best cycle lanes are in Europe. They properly seperate the traffic ,are wide, well cared for and clear of rubbish. They also grant priority in some cases to the bicycle over the combustion engine. Could see that being very popular in the UK!!!
I ride alot and also drive alot and I must say that on the whole I have little bother from vehicles when on the bike and never find bicycles cause me any hassle when in the car. I sometimes wonder wether this them and us mentality is just part of modern society. People love gathering in groups and bashing other groups, its just human nature.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2006 15:52 
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But do these systems where cycles have segregated lanes have traffic lights every 100 yards with 8 different phases?


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2006 21:46 
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Rhythm Thief wrote:
I cycle a lot, mostly to work and back (maybe 100 miles a week, sometimes a bit more).


Good man! I used to do that in Manchester. Not that I could match your speeds - although whether that was due to traffic of my lack of physical condition I'm not prepared to say. :wink:

There were few cycle lanes apart from the Wilmslow Road corridor - and those were mostly pretty useless for real cyclists. (They were just fine for students though.) :)

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 09:42 
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I think they should either be separated completely or mixed up completely. Aberdeen City Council has painted white lines everywhere to aid skidding in the wet.

The lanes are too narrow to cycle in, and at many junctions where a an extra "lane" for turning right has been painted on the road, the main lane for straight ahead narrows to about 4 feet wide thanks to the fake cycle lane. Naturally this makes a mockery of the whole idea.

Cyclists are rare in Aberdeen anyway due to Aberdeens geographic layout (City centre in a basin at sea level and the outskirts/industrial estates and residential areas a few hundred feet higher up) plus pissing rain and strong winds all the time mean that cycling isn't a hugely popular mode of transport round here :lol:

There's always a few blokes with thighs like tree trunks battling it out though - they're a lot fitter than I'll ever be!

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