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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 07:15 
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Daily Telegraph

Quote:
Cheap camera could multiply road speed traps within months
By David Millward, Transport Correspondent
(Filed: 10/10/2006)

A new generation of speed cameras capable of calculating how fast a car has been travelling over any distance could be on the roads within months.

The Spike system differs from both the Gatso cameras which flash cars as they go past and the costly Specs devices which are normally used to judge drivers' speed over a prolonged stretch of road.

Specs (Speed Check Enforcement System) costs several hundred thousand pounds, which has deterred some safety camera partnerships.

The alternative system, which has been submitted to the Home Office for approval, costs around £20,000. It is also portable, which would allow the cameras to be shifted to newly identified accident blackspots or road works. If approved, it could lead to the number of average speed safety camera systems soaring from the 14 in operation at present.

The new camera has been produced by Pips Technology, of Eastleigh, Hants, which already supplies digital number plate recognition cameras to a number of police forces.

Andrew Howard, the head of road safety at the AA Motoring Trust, said: "The great advantage with these cameras is that you can use them for long, nasty, curly stretches of road, rather than picking up motorists at odd points.

"They are particularly good on single carriageway roads, where people tend to go too fast and drive into trees or become involved in overtaking accidents. So these cameras can cut down on a lot of this behaviour."

The weakness of the average speed cameras was when a stretch of road was long enough for people to turn off, or join, at some point between the two cameras.

Paul Smith, a campaigner against speed cameras, said: "Oh dear, at that sort of price, it will lead to a proliferation which will be horrifying.

"This will lead to people looking at their speedometers every couple of seconds, rather than looking at the road.

"It is the massively expensive cost of the Specs system that has stopped it being introduced more widely.

"Speed cameras are greatly destructive and ones which take an average are even more so."

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 07:53 
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The alternative system, which has been submitted to the Home Office for approval, costs around £20,000. It is also portable, which would allow the cameras to be shifted to newly identified accident blackspots or road works. If approved, it could lead to the number of average speed safety camera systems soaring from the 14 in operation at present.


I am tempted to submit a FOI request asking the HOSDB what tests they are applying to this system

any help with the wording?

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 08:22 
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Pips Technology of Eastleigh. Hmmm...

It's just as well that us safety campaigners are not of the same frame of mind as the animal rights protesters with respect to Huntingdon Life Sciences.

Quote:
Andrew Howard, the head of road safety at the AA Motoring Trust, said: "The great advantage with these cameras is that you can use them for long, nasty, curly stretches of road, rather than picking up motorists at odd points.


Odd thing to say by the AA.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 08:34 
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FFS when are these idiots going to learn?! The people that crash won't be stopped by these silly cameras. They'll probably cause accidents as people brake part way round a corner as they think they've seen one. As usual those of us which actually quite like driving will have the whole thing ruined and just left to turn into some cretin which just does whatever speed it says on the lollipop. Perhaps we ought to have some stickers with 'I'm a good driver, I look at my speedo more than the road ahead'.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 10:00 
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I've actually found that it's quite difficult to average over 60mph on the NSL country lanes that the AA man seems to think are risky. So, in order for this to work, the blanket NSL on rural roads would need to be reduced. Where have I heard that before?

Quote:
They are particularly good on single carriageway roads, where people tend to go too fast and drive into trees or become involved in overtaking accidents.


And how will they stop overtaking accidents within the limit?

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 12:07 
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malcolmw wrote:
Quote:
Andrew Howard, the head of road safety at the AA Motoring Trust, said: "The great advantage with these cameras is that you can use them for long, nasty, curly stretches of road, rather than picking up motorists at odd points.


Odd thing to say by the AA.


I think the AA are pro-camera. Glad that no-one in our family is with them :)


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 12:43 
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Safe Speed issued the following PR at about 9:30 this morning:

PR380: Average speed cameras: "subtle and insidious" side effects

NOTE: PAUL SMITH IS IN LONDON AND AVAILABLE FOR INTERVIEW.

news: for immediate release

The Daily Telegraph today reports that a new generation of cheap average speed
cameras may soon become available [1]. Safe Speed is very concerned about the
overall effects of such cameras.

Paul Smith, founder of the Safe Speed road safety campaign
(www.safespeed.org.uk) said: "Responsible drivers are reporting to me that
driving at constant low speeds under threat of penalty makes them drowsy or
distracted. Obviously we all check our speedometers far more, and that
necessarily means less time available to look at the road ahead."

"Research commissioned by the Highways Agency, the largest of its kind,
associated average speed cameras with a 4.5% INCREASE in crashes in motorway
road works sections, and a 6.7% INCREASE in crashes on open motorways.[2]"

"We know for sure that road safety hasn't improved as expected in the speed
camera era. I believe that this is because speed camera come with dangerous
side effects. All cameras cause side effects, but the side effects of average
speed cameras appear to be especially subtle and insidious."

"Speed camera side effects are everywhere, but none of them have been
adequately studied."

"Speed camera policy has failed - instead of improving road safety it has made
matters worse. No amount of wishful thinking will paper of the cracks and turn
the losses to a benefit. Speed cameras must be scrapped, DfT must admit its
deadly mistake, and we must get back to the road safety policies that gave us
the safest roads in the world in the first place."

<ends>

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 14:46 
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madroaduser wrote:
I think the AA are pro-camera.


The AA has undergone a fair number of ownership changes in the past decade. Does anyone know if they have any vested interest in the camera technology business?


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 18:06 
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I thought they AA were now owned by centrica? I got the feeling they're a company which gets government contracts for all sorts. They own British Gas too. Or am I thinking of the RAC? :?


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 18:10 
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teabelly wrote:
I thought they AA were now owned by centrica? I got the feeling they're a company which gets government contracts for all sorts. They own British Gas too. Or am I thinking of the RAC? :?


You were right about it being the AA, this link might explain :)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3855635.stm

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 18:58 
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Hmmm. Interesting. CVC also own Alfa Topco, the holding company who acquired the rights to exploit Formula One commercial interests.

We are in the realms of shady backrooms deals here, folks. The AA has joined the dark side.....


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 10:45 
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It does seem pretty idiotic to celebrate the possibility of average speed cameras on twisty roads, since those are precisely the ones where maintaining the same speed is most difficult and most dangerous - the best drivers could be up to 70mph on a long straight without danger, but will be down to 40mph at the nasty bend; this will encourage the stupid to try even harder to maintain the exact speed limit whatever the road conditions.

Ian


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 18:01 
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malcolmw wrote:
I've actually found that it's quite difficult to average over 60mph on the NSL country lanes that the AA man seems to think are risky. So, in order for this to work, the blanket NSL on rural roads would need to be reduced. Where have I heard that before?

Quote:
They are particularly good on single carriageway roads, where people tend to go too fast and drive into trees or become involved in overtaking accidents.


And how will they stop overtaking accidents within the limit?

We have a couple of stretches of road which have been reduced - the B5284 through Crook is now 40 with some stretches of 30 - way beyond the villages they pass through. Overall, this is a road leading straight to a busy tourist destination, avoiding Windermere, and was over used for the size and quality of the road, and the limit did deter some motorists - but now they have learned it is not policed, it's not unusual to be caught up by cars doing well in excess of the limit, OR, worse still encountering vehicles well below the limit, driving without due care and generally causing apoplexy in other drivers who have no choice but to use the road! :oops:

The other road is the A592 between Bowness and Newby Bridge, now reduced to 50 mph.
I tried to average 50 last week on my way back from Barrow, and only managed 47 mph :twisted:

Both of these roads impose a unilateral limit, with no thought as to what is safe - which leads to an outbreak of disrespect form drivers, and increasing the risk to those whose driving standards are below average, who see the limit as SAFE when it is not. :oops:

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 20:26 
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Ernest Marsh wrote:
We have a couple of stretches of road which have been reduced - the B5284 through Crook is now 40 with some stretches of 30 - way beyond the villages they pass through. Overall, this is a road leading straight to a busy tourist destination, avoiding Windermere, and was over used for the size and quality of the road, and the limit did deter some motorists - but now they have learned it is not policed, it's not unusual to be caught up by cars doing well in excess of the limit, OR, worse still encountering vehicles well below the limit, driving without due care and generally causing apoplexy in other drivers who have no choice but to use the road! :oops:


When did the A5284 change? I've got a customer on that road and I don't remember long stretches of 40 when I was last there (probably 3mths back).


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 21:40 
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cerberus wrote:
Ernest Marsh wrote:
We have a couple of stretches of road which have been reduced - the B5284 through Crook is now 40 with some stretches of 30 - way beyond the villages they pass through. Overall, this is a road leading straight to a busy tourist destination, avoiding Windermere, and was over used for the size and quality of the road, and the limit did deter some motorists - but now they have learned it is not policed, it's not unusual to be caught up by cars doing well in excess of the limit, OR, worse still encountering vehicles well below the limit, driving without due care and generally causing apoplexy in other drivers who have no choice but to use the road! :oops:


When did the A5284 change? I've got a customer on that road and I don't remember long stretches of 40 when I was last there (probably 3mths back).

It has had a blanket 40 throughout its entire length for c. 10 years now!

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 22:41 
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JT wrote:
cerberus wrote:
Ernest Marsh wrote:
We have a couple of stretches of road which have been reduced - the B5284 through Crook is now 40 with some stretches of 30 - way beyond the villages they pass through. Overall, this is a road leading straight to a busy tourist destination, avoiding Windermere, and was over used for the size and quality of the road, and the limit did deter some motorists - but now they have learned it is not policed, it's not unusual to be caught up by cars doing well in excess of the limit, OR, worse still encountering vehicles well below the limit, driving without due care and generally causing apoplexy in other drivers who have no choice but to use the road! :oops:


When did the A5284 change? I've got a customer on that road and I don't remember long stretches of 40 when I was last there (probably 3mths back).

It has had a blanket 40 throughout its entire length for c. 10 years now!


:oops1: I only use it 3 or 4 times a year and I've driven a lot of miles since then. It was the way Ernest worded it that I thought it had recently changed


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 22:50 
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cerberus wrote:
JT wrote:
It has had a blanket 40 throughout its entire length for c. 10 years now!


:oops1: I only use it 3 or 4 times a year and I've driven a lot of miles since then. It was the way Ernest worded it that I thought it had recently changed

No worries - as Ernest says it has become a part of the scenery now and is pretty universally ignored on the more open stretches*. The most memorable thing is that it's an A road, yet a number of really narrow lanes join onto it; so the entrance to each of which sports a de-restriction sign. Whilst this ludicrous state of affairs is becoming fairly commonplace these days it was a source of much amusement when it was first done.

[* not sure if I should have said this - no doubt we'll have Steve and the boys down there in the morning, chanting "Pickings for all...!"]

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 23:16 
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JT wrote:
The most memorable thing is that it's an A road, yet a number of really narrow lanes join onto it; so the entrance to each of which sports a de-restriction sign.


Now you mention that I remember being behind a slow vehicle and it turned left at the small church. I remember laughing at the de-restriction sign on this narrow single track road the car was now heading down.


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