Safe Speed Forums

I'd like some opinions on showing courtesy on the roads.

I like helping people out, but I don't like annoying people. To that effect, if I can let someone out of a junction without inconveniencing anyone else, I often will (unless I'm at the back of a queue - in which case they can pull out behind me and save inconveniencing me for nothing).

What's brought this question on?

Ok scene setting:

The A90 to Aberdeen from the north is partly single carriageway.

On one long stretch of SC in particular, there is one junction alone which causes disproportionate congestion. It is a T-junction joining the A90 from a very small village.

Every morning, nose to tail stop-start traffic is encountered at peak times on the A90 around 1.5 ~ 2 miles from the junction. If a driver can stay in 1st gear with the clutch out, he/she is greatful. The queue will typically comprise several hundred vehicles.

Upon reaching this junction, the cause of the frustrating stop start, left knee killing faff becomes obvious. There is a constant, yet very light flow of traffic from this village (Newburgh). It is seldom that the queue from Newburgh is more than 3 cars long. On average, each car arriving at the junction has been let onto the A90 before the next car pulls up at the junction.

Clearly people are being kind and letting all the Newburgh drivers onto the main road. That's nice eh?

1/4 mile after the junction the traffic is moving at 40ish again all the way to the next stretch of DC when free-flow is re-established.

What bugs me a bit is that Newburgh drivers experience no congestion whatsoever, whilst users of the main road (A90) are forced to queue in stop-start for miles (a good 15 minutes) just to save joining traffic from any wait whatsoever.

What are other people's opinions? Is this overuse of courtesy?

Personally I would rank this up with that person you are behind at a traffic light cross-roads, who when the light turns green waves 10 cars turning right from the opposite direction across, finally moving off himself just as the lights turn amber again, leaving you (and 20 other irate roadusers behind) stuck there waiting for the next cycle of the lights.

In short - the needs of the few seem to outweigh the needs of the many.

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I don't know about that Jamie, the crossroads scenario above takes some beating, I would rank it towards the top of my top 10 pet motoring hates!...In a way i'm pleased i'm not the only one who gets so frustrated by this kind of behaviour; letting one car go at the expense of the 20 others behind, then driving off just as the lights go amber!

It sounds like there could usefully be a slip road built on that road junction.

<I realise the comment is of no help to JD>

I travel each day and have to join a dual carriageway from a fairly short sliproad.

If the traffic coming down the dual carriageway is stop/start (typically from the next junction along) the nearside lane traffic usually kindly allows a 1-for-1 merge. This must cause a similar issue to which JD refers back up the A12 (although I'd not even thought of such a situation before this thread).

If the traffic is honking down and spaced out - no problem either. The comparatively few folk joining the dual carriageway from "my" road can merge in at about the same rate as the stop/starters, albeit having to wait for a few fastards.

The problem occurs for us joiners when the traffic is significantly restricted (and hence bunched up) by those further downstream, but still travelling at a speed that would require breaking and be extremely disruptive to through traffic were someone to allow a joiner to merge. On these days it backs up until a hold up further down the road effectively releases us (exacerbating up-stream traffic dramatically I now realise).

JD - my reaction is to let one car out - that done - car behind does likewise - and that way olde fashionede courtesy is preserved --no extreme pressure is placed on you or folowing car - and all feel good.

My other pet hate is when you let someone out and they sit there like a muppet dithering, in I've had this happen in London and cars behnd are pretty quick to lay on the horn.

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Gordon Brown saying I got the country into it's current economic mess so I'll get us out of it is the same as Bomber Harris nipping over to Dresden and offering to repair a few windows.

Chaos, panic and disorder - my work here is done.

http://www.wildcrafts.co.uk

This is exactly what happens with, and I have no problem with that.

Before one reaches the queue however, and no more than 1/4 mile after the junction the traffic is moving at a decent speed and is "reasonably" spaced out.

Small numbers of traffic can join from other minor junctions without causing anyone to stop, and usually without even needing anyone to back off the throttle to widen the gap...

It seems to me that this too must be the case at the junction I first mentioned, up until the point where "someone" on the main road makes an excessive effort to let someone else out (possible due to that someone else dithering as SE noted???) and thus the bunching up starts.

I imagine that a few cycles of excessively courteous main road users, and possibly a few dithering joiners are all that's needed to reduce the main road to a crawl (with faster traffic rapidly approaching the person stopped smiling on the main road) and the queue building up hence??


Roger - I think a slip road would be an excellent addition. Better still, they could just add another 2 lanes for 7 miles and meet up with the dual carriageway either side, which has few slip roads yet for the same volume of traffic, all commuters from a larger village (Balmedie) than Newburgh seem to manage to join the road without annoying anyone.

A90 drivers see someone waiting to join the road and if safe to do so, move into L2, allowing joiners to accelerate in L1. Not ideal, and a slip road would be better, but it works and AFAIK there have been no serious accidents at the south* Balmedie junction, but there have been numerous accidents at the Newburgh junction, including a minor 3 car shunt this morning.


*(there is a north junction too with a bad reputation for crashes, but it's a real mess with traffic from 4 directions and the DC starting/ending 100yards north - been re-engineered slightly but needs sliproads)

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I'm the same but with one additional clause. I don't let people in excessively high vehicles out. I know this will be unpopular but it is my choice. If I'm sat behind a line of cars of similar height, I have a much longer view of the road ahead. I can normally see the third-brake-light about 4 cars ahead by seeing through the other cars. If I let a non-standard vehicle out, my view is severally hampered and I have to adjust my braking distance accordingly.

Ironically, I would rather let the chav in his Saxo or a knackerd old car out as I don't want him behind me putting my life in his hands.

Not sure if this should be in the near miss or here...

After the snarl up on the A13 today I went home via the A12, had a 4x4 tailgating - speeding up behind me then as the traffic moved he sits then hares up behind me, during one of these gaps another car from lane 1 pops in behind me.

He kept a good gap, kept pace with me and the traffic, so I made sure that I kept him behind me (normally if there is a chance to get across the lights I'll take it but it would have meant losing him as my rear guard).

About 1/2 a mile down the road the 4x4 rear ends my 'rear guard' gets out and starts yelling at the guy for 'suddenly braking'. I poked my oar in and told my rear guard that whilst I didn't see the accident clearly I would certainly provide a statment saying that 4x4 driver was tailgating me before hitting him.

4x4 driver tells both of us to 'F!*k Off' and storms back to car.

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Gordon Brown saying I got the country into it's current economic mess so I'll get us out of it is the same as Bomber Harris nipping over to Dresden and offering to repair a few windows.

Chaos, panic and disorder - my work here is done.

http://www.wildcrafts.co.uk

that'll be Essex Man at work... I'd give the statement too, it's got worth 3 points hasn't it?