Safe Speed Forums

This question isn't because I'm getting done for speeding or anything, but something about the signing on the main road into a shopping area (Broadfields retail park, Aylesbury for those who know the ares) has often puzzled me.

A map is in order..



The red things are supposed to be road signs, with the arrow representing the direction you would have to be facing in order to see the sign. For clarity I haven't shown the 40 signs as you enter the big roundabout at the bottom.

So as you enter from the bottom of the map, the limit drops to 30, then once you are past the one way street to McDonalds and the service road, it drops to 20. And yes, two of the 20 signs have been facing sideways for the last 6 months.

So my question is, looking at the two routes marked A and B on the map, what is the speed limit when they are on the roundabout at the top of the map

It depends, the speed limit orders are a document. If the document says the roundabout has a 30 limit then it's 30. If it says it has a 20 limit then it's 20.

Although the 30 limit area/s might not have their own order and might instead be covered by the national speed limit.

As for enforceability, I'd say route A you would have an excuse to be doing 30 even if the roundabout has a 20mph speed limit order on it and route B you would not.

Although the bottom left sign does not have one the other side of the road of it, so that wouldn't be enforceable anyway. (terminal signs are required to be in pairs in most circumstances)

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Andrew.

That was as I thought. Though it gets more interesting if you actually go to Tesco, since Tesco have imposed a 5mph limit (that no-one takes any notice of) and don't have any signs at all on exit.

It would be resonable to expect that the same speed limit applies upon leaving Tesco as when you entered, so surely it would then be down to plod to prove that you took the main route and not the back route. All you would need is an empty Big Mac carton in the car to prove otherwise.

What about the enforcability of the 20mph signs that have been turned sideways?

under the Health and saftey regs for work places all commercial sites must have a safe traffic management of motorists and pedestrians. IE the tesco 5mph signs. they don't have a traffic order and are not enforcable as a speed limit. If you had an accident on a site they could only do you for dangerous driving or something similar as these offences are not restricted to public highway. On leaving the private car park and joining the public highway, you would resume the speed limit that you left. Incorect signs might be a mitigation that you were reasonably confused by private road signs and the fact that the boundery of public and private was almost seamlessbut I think that the offence would have been commited.

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Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code

Nah they haven't, they've just put up signs.
Have you ever tried sticking to 5mph in these places? I did it once while my sister was with me and we couldn't stop laughing at how ridiculously slow it was!


If they aren't reasonably recognisable as a sign then that'd be a defence. Same as if they were covered in branches/etc.

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Andrew.

Lum, the driver you tracked on the map looks a bit P1ssed

Local Live view of rounabouts at;
http://local.live.com/default.aspx?v=2& ... ne=4284295

I know the 5mph limit isn't enforceable, hence why I dont take any notice of it either (my speedo starts at 10!)

Local Live link doesn't work for me, it just takes me to a search screeen.

And yeah, sorry for the wobbly map. my optical mouse isn't very good. Besides given the close proximity of a McDonalds and the kind of idiocy that attracts, it's not too unrealistic.

The numer of times people have turned right out of McDs onto that one-way street and tried to rejoin the main dual carriageway is unbelievable.


Edit: Actually route A is pretty reasonable. That one way street is wide enough for two cars, and I do prefer to keep left for the most of it as there is a self storage place on the right hand side of that road. Cue lots of estate cars reversing out without looking.

I seem to be the only person in Aylesbury who remembers the bit about keeping right when turning right from a one-way street too. A great way to queue-jump, though one day someone is going to turn left into that one-way street and hit me.

Maybe it was a Micra.


Can't trust microshaft. Use something better!

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Andrew.