Safe Speed Forums

I recently ordered a new car, but as it needed a factory order it took a few weeks to arrive.

Unfortunately, during this period, I happened to have a minor parking collision (my fault ) in my old car which resulted in an insurance claim.

This has led to the new vehicle sitting on the dealer's forecourt while the repairs are sorted out

The changeover date is now confidently expected to be next Friday, so I rang my insurers to give them the details of the new vehicle. They responded by saying that because of my claims record they wouldn't insure it, and even though I was only 3 months into the policy, they wouldn't give me any of the premium back either. Grasping bastards!

It's not as if I have a bad claims record either, in the past 5 years I have had:

(a) a break-in resulting in the rear window needing replacement
(b) a standard front windscreen replacement, and
(c) the parking knock mentioned above

Hardly the record of an irresponsible nutter. But this underlines that fault is largely irrelevant to insurers - all they want to know is the number and cost of claims.

So not only do I have to fork out the excess for the car to be repaired, I have to pay for a whole new year's insurance too

However, I did manage to get a quote £200 less than the one they had given me.

Merry bloody Christmas!

_________________
"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

I would check out the legality of them retaining a years worth of premium for 3 months' cover.

I was under the impression that they normally gave a pro rata refund after subtracting an 'administration fee' (20% in my experience).

Is this a 'refusal' in line with the question on proposal forms?

In which case I fear that's going to cost you too. What a bloody nightmare. <waves of sympathy>

_________________
Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

It's utterly astonishing - but I will take the view that I cancelled the policy when handing in the old car, then took up a new one.

I am helped by the fact that Peugeot (the new car is a 207) provide 7 days' free insurance on new cars.

I am going to write a stinking letter to the insurers requesting a £300 refund.

_________________
"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

Was the claim for the collision on the new policy or the old one? Were you paying monthly for the new policy or did you pay in one lump sum?

For what they can and cannot do it is worth looking at the GISC General Insurance something or other site which sets out what members can and cannot do. Ditto have a look on the OFT's site and the Financial Ombudsman's sites.

It's possibly worth a bell to your local trading standards too.

I do not think that this constitutes "refusal". You changed your car; the company declined to insure the new one. This happens every day. You had valid insurance on the old car and were unfortunate enough to make a claim. This is all you need to tell the new insurance company. This must be the case as, for example, if you asked an alternative insurer for a quote at renewal time and they came back and said "Sorry, your car is too expensive for us" you would have to declare this as a refusal.

Regarding the non-refund of the premium, you will have to read the policy as this will tell you the terms of the contract. Some say that if you have a claim then the whole premium is forfeit.

_________________
Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

Does anyone know for sure what does constitute a 'refusal'? I've been checking the 'no' box all my adult life without ever really understanding it. I figured I'd know it if I met it. I'm still concerned that PeterE's thing might be one.

_________________
Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Peter E wrote

"I am going to write a stinking letter to the insurers requesting a £300 refund"

Might be worth your while to get the refusal to insure refuted too(in writing) ---just in case any future insurer takes the view that it was a refusal to insure.

Don't know for certain but doesn't the question ask if you have been refused insurance? In this case the car was refused, not the driver.

It's something I have also been confused about in the past. My wife took out a policy once, was told yes over the phone, filled in the paperwork then a few weeks later was declined because she was under 25. But they would cover her for the period since he application.

It does count as a refusal.

Because of your claims record they declined to insure your new car.

Further, that will be recorded on the insurance industry database.

If you take out a new policy without telling them that your previous insurer declined to insure you, you risk paying for worthless insurance.

I was afraid of that. But how do you know?

_________________
Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

And it all hangs upon whether they recorded the above. My personal experience is that not only is the information about whether or not you are insured available to an enquirer, but other information as well. Such as the expected annual mileage, and type of insurance..IE: insured to carry goods etc.

You have to ask whether it is worth the trouble misleading a new insurer to save a few hundred quid, when it may mean your new insurance is not worth the paper it's printed on.

The meaning of "refusal" appears to be unclear to most people here. I don't think that anyone is trying to mislead an insurer.

How about the declining to quote issue raised above? If you use confused.com to search and a few companies decline to quote then do you declare these?

_________________
Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

I would say a refusal should be a refusal based on the persons or people named as drivers. A refusal on the particular vehicle is slightly different but possibly worth mentioning if asked about refusals. Different insurers behave differently.

I had insurance cancelled as I discovered my car was chipped. I was stupid enough to be honest and the insurance company cancelled my policy so I lost a year's ncd. This has given me a dim view of insurance companies as they could have easily continued the policy until renewal time and asked me to go elsewhere rather than cancelling mid term. With behaviour like this then no wonder people lie. Insurance companies are also masters at weasling out of claims if they can so again I am not surprised people stiff them for all they can when they have the opportunity!

Said previously - veritable sharks and it always makes me feel a bit cross when I hear the glib "Ah.. but you are insured so it will get fixed!"

Peter - you will have to declare this to your new insurer and shop around as well. They are all different companies and they all have different rules.. so how one interprets your "claims record" may not be the same as another insurer.

Play your IAM qualification as well. This can count in favour too as it shows you are not some accident prone muppet but a highly responsible driver.

Play on the bad luck of the break in and the stone chip ((or whatever) which necessitated the replaced windscreen. As for the parking mis-hap.. well .. these are routine at this time of year and should not reflect ability on the road either.

I would not buy over the internet.. go straight to broker who will check out a number of policy options for you to compare and spread the costs over the year.

Best of luck. Perhaps there are some insurance fora out there where you could put out some feelers as to how best to set about recouping the lost premium as well.





.

_________________
Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.

The trouble is you are not dealing with people in a position to make a decision, you are dealing with muppets sat at a computer screen and if the "computer says no" then that's as far as you can go.

If you were to declare this refusal and had insurance refused on the grounds that you had been refused before then what? Do you declare both refusals? I can very easily imagine you not being able to get insurance at all.

As someone else said, if you apply for a quote via confused.com, several potential insurers will refuse to quote for various reasons, e.g. Class 1 business use. Surely that doesn't count as a refusal. Or if you change an ordinary car for a high-performance one, and your existing insurer doesn't want to quote for it?

_________________
"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

Quite. Telephone and internet sales are all well and good as long as the transaction proceeds according to the checksheet that the automaton or computer has as its reference.
Once things break out of the pre-programmed trail, you can almost picture the telesales bod sat there with a symbolic flashing cursor in their brain waiting for some input.

I would not think this would necessarily constitute "refusal to insure". It could mean simply that they do not have a policy which could cover the loss of the very expensive car.

_________________
Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.

Yep.. but sometimes the quaint old way with a broker who at least asks you questions and give advice as to the policies and the company offering them can be a benefit.

But Peter still has to give details of the claims within past 5 years because he does not know if this refusal features on a data base anyway and he does not invalidate any further insurance by failing to disclose. . None of these to my mind warrant such daftness on the part of the insurers in any case.

I'd say his best bet is to shop around to get the best quote and then tackle the old insurers once he's got things settled.

Automation .. Looks like all its taken us is back to the Dark Ages as far as common sense is concerned

_________________
Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.