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SPEED CAMERA AXED BECAUSE IT'S DANGEROUS

By Gary Anderson

A NOTORIOUS motorway speed camera which has increased the risk of accidents and caused huge tailbacks is to be scrapped.

The trap on the M4 has become a hazard during rush-hour as drivers brake sharply to avoid fines.

It has also triggered bunching, with motorists forced to stop and start along the 50mph stretch.

The Gatso's axing is thought to be the first such move by highways officials on safety grounds.

Campaigner Paul Smith, of Safe Speed, said it was a landmark admission by authorities cameras can be counterproductive.

He said: "It's a scandal. The side-effects are terrible and ensure that the cure is far worse than the disease."

The device was installed at Junction 41 near Port Talbot, West Glamorgan, in 2003 after a motorist died and three were seriously injured on the two-lane stretch in the three previous years.

The National Assembly for Wales admitted the camera caused congestion. Tory Assembly member Alun Cairns added: "The siting of it has always been nonsensical." The only time cameras have previously been decommissioned was in March when 30 failed to meet new rules ensuring they are clearly visible and installed only at sites of fatal or serious accidents.

But Philip Davies, of the Mid & South Wales Safety Camera Partnership, insisted the M4 camera had cut casualties. He said: "No one has been killed or seriously injured since it was installed."

Fears over the detrimental effects of cameras deepened last year when a probe was ordered over conflicting figures about their safety.

Another Government study found £5,000 flashing warning signs led to a 7mph fall in speeds and 34 per cent cut in accidents compared to 3.7mph and 14 per cent for £30,000 speed cameras.

The M4 trap will be replaced in the New Year by vehicle-activated signs that flash up warnings for drivers to slow down but do not fine those that trigger them by exceeding the limit.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Motorways are usually 70mph, so is there good reason why drivers shouldn't exceed 50 on that stretch?

Common sense rules at last!



More by luck than judgement

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It's tricky doing nothing - you never know when you're finished

Even if it were true... Someone hereabouts posted contrary data.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

A slightly lower limit here is useful because of the small distance between junctions and some fairly sharp, in motorway terms, bends, some lack of hard shoulder and big concreate barriers near the junctions.

I have heard of people getting ticketted here prior to the cameras but it was always for inappropriate speed, 85-90 in parts could be very dangerous unlike a lot of motorway stretches.

The problem as always is the fact that people do panic brake (not so much the locals obviously) and the westbound camera is located on a nice long open straight which of course points at it's real purpose.

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It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his job depends on not understanding it.

Upton Sinclair

I said that I was sure they had risen, Twister found the article I was revering to, can't find thread atm.

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It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his job depends on not understanding it.

Upton Sinclair

When I did Radio Wales on this subject, somone explained that the junction in question has a very unusual design - the onslip comes before the offslip. Obviously when it's busy with junction traffic, there's extra congestion in the somewhat critical 'interslip gap'.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

This is the link to the thread in question.

http://www.safespeed.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11408

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Useless laws weaken necessary laws.

So is this good reason why drivers shouldn't exceed 50 on that stretch?

If so: I agree that a speed camera is mostly useless in this instance, but what alternative solution are the authorities implementing?

Dunno.

But I'm absolutely certain it's a good reason to ban overtaking (which might be fairly similar in practice at busier times).

Although, perhaps many drivers don't call it 'overtaking' on motorways and dual carriageways, in which case it might be hard to sign clearly.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Wouldn’t banning ‘passing’ lead to the same problems? HGVs don’t go much faster than 50 and even they frequently overtake cars going even slower.

However, I do appreciate your point (I hope): it is about leaving room for others to change lane smoothly and safely.

Dare I say it: how about encouraging drivers exiting to get in lane 1 early and those not exiting to stay out of lane 1 between those junctions - kinda like turning lane 1 into a big slip road between the junctions.

I wonder what will happn on the M42. that has peak hour 50 limits and cameras

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Speed camera policy Kills

Yeah. If overtaking is banned and side-by-side driving is a component example of overtaking, then even grossly negligent lane changes won't cause a crash.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Noone has been killed on the street where I live since the local dairy stopped delivering milk door-to-door here. This sets a clear precedent that banning milk-floats nationwide will vastly reduce fatalities on our roads.

I can't believe noone has cottoned on to this lifesaving measure before!

I can't recall this stretch, but for me it seems that, if it is ordinarily a 3-lane stretch, that lane 3 should disappear a half-mile or so before the junction. then both remaining lanes drift right (by white-lining), leaving room to create a third lane for the on-slippers and off-slippers at the silly junction. If it is a 2-lane stretch already, maybe more drastic re-engineering is required. What price lives?

Agreed.
If the stretch is short, then perhaps a fourth lane could be created (perhaps utilising the emergency lane?) instead of limiting the use of one of the three?

Fundamentally, this is about the mess that has given to us, not the fact that we have to find a way to live with it!

I don't go as far as this stretch on a normal day (I exit on 37 westbound), probably only use it a few times a year, but I'll do a recce tomorrow if I have time (I have the dubious pleasure of building my dad's new pc once the bits get delivered and setting it up for him).

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It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his job depends on not understanding it.

Upton Sinclair

I don't drive that stretch on a working day but know it very very well.

I've been caught up in pretty sticky congestion on a SUNDAY beacuse of the damn thing many times.


It's n incredibly cynical siting, outside the 'dangerous' stretch on a long straight some 500m before and in sight of the NSL signs.

It must have make the south wales SCP a fortune! No doubt when it is eventually removed it will be given a gold watch!

p.s it ws still there yesterday!!

Maybe I'm being a bit simplistic here - but why don't they just move the onslip/offslip into the normal order?

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Wake me up when the revolution starts
STOP the Toll Tax http://www.traveltax.org.uk

Can anyone find an aerial photo of this junction for us to consider?

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety