Safe Speed Forums

No need to shout.

That's a great statement and one I can completely endorse.
But isn't it a massive leap to conclude that adherence to the HC solely will result in a fraction of the incidents we now have. It's a great start but doesn't begin to address what needs to go on in the drivers mind.

From your signature one would assume you have passed an advanced driving course. If that is the case, surely you know that anyway.

_________________
It's tricky doing nothing - you never know when you're finished

There's nothing funny about any of the following:

Inappropriate or excessive speed was reported as a contributory factor in 29% of all fatal accidents. (Inappropriate 17%, Excessive 12%)

Loss of control was a contributory factor in 35% of all fatal accidents.

Careless, reckless, or in a hurry was a contributory factor in 18% of all fatal accidents.

Aggressive driving was a factor in 8% of all fatal accidents.

Every single one of these is directly related to the appropriateness of the speed drivers choose to drive at at any given time, particularly "Loss of control" accidents.

Incidentally - Stolen Vehicles are responsible for negliible amounts of KSI, something SS continually mentions as a major contributor (when it clearly isn't)

Martin .. we have a post by one of the cycling idiots who "claims to be a criminal barrister" but whose posting frequency leaves that in dispute/

I could name him but that would sink me to their level. He cannot ever deny posting this one He posted it more thaan once to our knowledge .. and the sum of his legal knowledge appears to paste up "Blackstones" and whilst IG proves his credentials by adding ad lib explanations to make the stuff clearer to the non- legal.. this person merely pastes and leaves it at that..

Genuine would provide insight and not a copy type Genuine would not nothc up several thousand posts in one month either




So you see .. this person claims to be a lawyer .. engaged in criminal law and yet finds the time to post 24/7 on a chat room and unlike IG who and myself and yourself . Martin.. who at least suggest a number of useful reads .. including the HC.. to that lot

"merely a code" and they even claim a victory over 11K internet votes when the amendments are far from final

I for one hope these amendments are made and will lobby for their inclusion as I have nowt to fear as I do as the amendments sugest anyway and drive and ride as safe as I know how. My wife and kids deserve my strive to keep us safe after all.

_________________
If you want to get to heaven - you have to raise a little hell!

Smilies are contagious
They are just like the flu
We use our smilies on YOU today
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KEEP SMILING
It makes folk wonder just what you REALLY got up to last night!

Smily to penny.. penny to pound
safespeed prospers-smiles all round! !
But the real message? SMILE.. GO ON ! DO IT! and the world will smile with you!
Enjoy life! You only have the one bite at it.

It is frustrating when people seem to feel the need to drive "their own" way without any regard for the rules of the road. From the statistics I have posted, it appears that tailgating is not a particular issue, being a factor in 3% of reported fatalities. The SS mantra applied to this would render it completely insignificant therefore not worth bothering with, yet we all know how intimidating and dangerous it can be when you have an idiot 6 inches from your behind.

The Highway Code states that one should leave a 2 second gap in good conditions, the education has already been delivered as has been stated. Why do people not apply this knowledge to deliver a predictable and safe driving environment?

This is what you said:



So you can discard your 29% figure straight away. The actual figure is 12%. However, this is 12% as a contributory factor and not a cause



Heres a little nugget of information for you - all accidents are related to speed. No velocity = no collision. Loss of control can be down to many things - poor surface (not visible from driver's perspective), spillages, aquaplaning through invisible puddles at night (motorways are bad for this).

Stop clutching at straws, and stop trying to blind people with science that you don't understand.

You already sank to his level Ted because you posted the name then edited it!

Ah but it purports to be a "for cyclists only forum"

There is little cycling discussion of any merit. Look at the recent threads and look at who is posting.

All of these claim to do big rides as well. They cannot. You have to train up for those. I know and my wife knows. Bless her she can do a 20 mile loop around Ullswater now... and managed a 15 mile uphill in the Vorarlberg .. and paid with her breathing capacity.

I am fairly vocioferous over drivers of defectives because of Ferdl and more so over people driving if they feel unfit because of what this family went through with my wife.

But as you say . Safespeed has a case to argue. Idiots who do not ride or drive do not and those individuals claim to ride but their post count and silliness on general interest sites suggest mischief and trollery.

Kriss does ride as does Mike as do Andreas, Andreas and Andrew as do self, Wildy, Charles, Alice, Klaril, Maxim, Siegli, Jayne, Joachim, Maria., Jenny, Willi, Susana, Marianna, Craig, Jessika, Martyn, Axel, Inge, Kniut, Karl, Friedrich, Bob , Sue, George and the rest..

They don't do illegal either on bikes or in cars. They so safe and COAST led which oddly enough has them observant to raod conditions and compliant with legality and safe speed below limit of densely populated zones

_________________
If you want to get to heaven - you have to raise a little hell!

Smilies are contagious
They are just like the flu
We use our smilies on YOU today
Now Good Causes are smiling too!

KEEP SMILING
It makes folk wonder just what you REALLY got up to last night!

Smily to penny.. penny to pound
safespeed prospers-smiles all round! !
But the real message? SMILE.. GO ON ! DO IT! and the world will smile with you!
Enjoy life! You only have the one bite at it.

But martin .. I did edit as soon as I re-read what I posted and then removed the name before he'd really notice... or at least I hope so...


I am not the nasty type. You should know that by now Martin or Jec whichever

I know.. mate .. wimmin You should try living with Wildy. Love her absolutely and with the whole of my head and heart.. but I accept she can rile a saint. and I love her all the more.

_________________
If you want to get to heaven - you have to raise a little hell!

Smilies are contagious
They are just like the flu
We use our smilies on YOU today
Now Good Causes are smiling too!

KEEP SMILING
It makes folk wonder just what you REALLY got up to last night!

Smily to penny.. penny to pound
safespeed prospers-smiles all round! !
But the real message? SMILE.. GO ON ! DO IT! and the world will smile with you!
Enjoy life! You only have the one bite at it.

Spindrift isn't a cyclist. I very much doubt he has a job. Personally I think hes either employed by an SCP (not a job IMO), a student, or a big fat sweaty unemployable oaf with an axe to grind.

They're the total antichrists of cycling. They're exactly the kind of people who give cyclists a bad name.

Not a major contributor absolutely, but relatively to what is left over after you take away all those crashes under the speed limit.

Well I just returned from a thread which one of poster gave me abuse for what was actually an error on his part.

The behaviour from some of these people is absolutely disgusting, not to mention the context manipulation, misquotes and outright lies. Still, I have shown them up for what they are for all to see.

I'm beginning to believe there is no common ground to be had from these people, none at all

Only I can respect Steve, Kevin and Jan to a point and I think they respect we Swiss more or less. Kevin and JJ were always polite anyway :winK: Steve used to get het up..and perhaps due to stress of the figures not matching what he was saying


I also doubt he has a job. I do not even think employed by SCP as the Cumbrian lot only posted on their own forum and only occasionally after its closure elsewhere. Steve allowed himself to get wired up by Wildy on PH..- but you know her by now Parrot

But Steve et al were not 24/7 - even on their own forum to be absolutely fair to them. They did at least look to their" work." I do play strictly to fair play and the JJ trio I think accept nothing posted was intended as malicious despite one tantrum on the part of one of them. I think they know IG and self played a fair and pleasant interaction anyway and current correspondence seems to indicate this. I am still more than grateful for the contact name over the cycling paths from hell and I know these undermine rather than help the submarinated trio in terms of delivering safety to our area.


I think your latter thought sums it up.. an oaf... chav.. unemployable and who can only fill his time by posting bile in internet cafes.

I would not insult Steve and his chums by even suggesting those idiots had 'owt to do with their "jobs" in loose terms. Spindrifts of this world are lower than prehistoric amoeba.. and Parrot .. does not coem lightly to me to think that. I like people and tend to look for good first and bad next. But that does not mean easily taken in or duped

_________________
If you want to get to heaven - you have to raise a little hell!

Smilies are contagious
They are just like the flu
We use our smilies on YOU today
Now Good Causes are smiling too!

KEEP SMILING
It makes folk wonder just what you REALLY got up to last night!

Smily to penny.. penny to pound
safespeed prospers-smiles all round! !
But the real message? SMILE.. GO ON ! DO IT! and the world will smile with you!
Enjoy life! You only have the one bite at it.

Given your examples, I'd blame the driver every time. Or are the poor people completely out of control of their actions?

Might I suggest our energy might be better employed in not pursuing this thread any further? I suspect the less reasonable members of the small "clique" on C+ are delighted with all the effort SS members have devoted to their vendetta against Paul both on here and on C+...

I would agree. But is it acceptable for an authority knowing this to be the case, to do it anyway? And then to police the situation with speed cameras? If reducing the speed limit has the overall effect of worsening safety for the above reasons, regardless of who is to blame, should they still enforce the new limit while ignoring the more serious problems?

And don't try and say they don't, because they do. A6144(M), now A6144, 70mph SCL motorway designated road, designed and constructed for 70mph traffic, no central reservation, perfectly safe for nearly 20 years. Just this year reduced to 50mph after declassification - not 60mph as you would expect. The same week, for the first time EVER, policed by speed cameras.

Safety my arse. Revenue.

So are you arguing against a failed safety measure, or a revenue raiser?

I think we may be getting to the crux.

So come on then, why IS it that we're not seeing any significant reduction in road deaths then?

Pretty much every SCP in the land tries to justify its existence by claiming great reductions in...

...and then the tune changes depending on circumstances. Sometimes it's "killed" sometimes it's "KSIs" sometimes it's "SIs". Usually it's "...at the camera sites" except when there hasn't been any reduction there in which case it's "across the county" AND SO ON AND SO ON. I expect it won't be long before we're getting "...with the moon in its third quarter" qualifying statements too!

...and yet, across the country as a whole, we loose about the same number of lives each year.

Let's face it, camera enforcement isn't working. We've had more and more of these things foisted upon us for the best part of 10 years now and road deaths haven't changed appreciably. If this had been a drugs trial, it would have been abandoned long ago.

Come on government! Put your money where your mouth is! If it is SOOOOO dangerous, let's not pussy-foot about with piffling little fines and "totting-up points" and 10% +2MPH tolerances! INSTANT BAN for EVERYONE more than 1MPH over the limit - no excuses, no mitigating circumstances. EVER.

Now if that's not putting my head on the block, I don't know what is!

In return, I'd ask only two things.

1. NO FINES. Let's not let a nice little revenue stream risk clouding our judgement eh?

2. A DEFINITE time limit on the experiment - after which we look at the figures and see if it has been worth it.


If nothing else, it would be worth it just to see the smug, self-righteous 10% of the driving population (and that's a pretty cautious estimate!) trying to keep the economy going AND paying for all the extra prisons needed to keep us in!

Where's the camera on the former Motorway section?

Wishful thinking? Shouting down?

If there's 'no real world merit' then feel free to point out exactly what the flaws are.



This is typical SCP drivel. Where did you get it from?

The fallacy isn't immediately obvious perhaps, but of course the speed limit tells us exactly nothing about the safety of a speed in a given set of circumstances.

A nation of drivers who never exceeded the speed limit, but didn't adjust their speed according to the conditions would kill MILLIONS in a year.

A nation of drivers who ignored speed limits all the time, but adjusted their speed very well to the circumstances would kill very few in a year.

_________________
Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Ahh Parrot my old sparring partner, I think you may actually be me, but in lycra shorts

Nothing irritates me more than people who either spout statistics they do not understand, when the actual meaning of them contradicts their point, or enshroud their statistics in semantics, with the aim of confounding those who seek their true implications. Do stop it you trolls, there are some very intelligent people here, we will not be baffles by your bulls#it!

I would tend to agree with prof beard...theres no benefit to be gained from debating with those who's tiny minds cannot be changed. You could show these chaps a big sign from God saying 'You're Wrong!' and they'd still tell you that black was white!

Mole, as ever, gets to the nub of the matter. At best the speed camera policy is road-safety-neutral, statistics do bear this out, if you are willing to dig through the spin to garner the raw data. At the same time, it criminalises those who largely pose no threat to society, and siphons millions of pounds from drivers to fund quango organisations who's only benefit to society is to employ those who failed the literacy tests for the refuse collection service!