Safe Speed Forums

ok.. whats the deal with these bus gate things.
the extra set of lights before a junction that allows a bus to filter out of a bus lane ahead of the traffic.

i can think of three places locally where i can happily cycle down the shared bus/taxi/cycle lane only to come upon a bus gate and a red light.

as a bike, i don't trigger the lights to go in my favour, and nor would i really want to as there's no need in reality.

the moral problem is that i'm then faced with two options:
1 - go through the red light.
2 - try and merge with traffic and go round the green side, which usually also involves crossing a solid white line at the edge of the bus lane to get there.

i sure as heck know which feels safer but its also very obviously illegal.



any votes?

what is really needed if they insist on using these things is a shoot through lane for bikes either to the left or right of the gate.

Email/Letter to Local Authority Transport dept (or use the form on their website). Explain that the traffic-light sensor is not detecting your bicycle and ask that they adjust it. They will fix it.
Alternatively, look for the induction-loop on the ground, and ride SLOWLY over the left or right edge of it, or stop on the edge. There's a higher chance you'll trigger it this way.

Shoot-through lanes are not a good answer - they accumulate glass/crap/debris as they are not swept clear by the traffic flow.

but my point is.. there's no need for me to trigger the lights.. i don't need a cycle gate!
i especially don't want to have to slow down & weave across the lane in order to do so!

i could quite easily continue through the red, and merge happily without inconveniencing the traffic (and lets face it, thats pretty much all that bus gates succeed in doing anyway).

i agreee shoot through lanes are usually a poor solution, but there has to be a better solution than triggering the lights.

its almost like they need to mark a cycle lane within the bus lane that goes through the same lights (and continues out the other side), but without a stopline... buses stop, bikes cruise through.

Is there a factor that would make it more dangerous for you to merge with the traffic before the bus gate rather than after it?

hmmmm.... only that they wouldn't be expecting it.

i'd have to change my position to the far right of the bus lane, signal, see if anyone had noticed or cared, cross a solid white and join the traffic (2lanes, 40limit in one of the the cases i'm thinking of).

in the case above i'd have to start thinking about doing it 1/4mile ahead of the gate.. in which case i may as well have not taken refuge in the bus lane at all!
..which in turn won't endear me to drivers who'll wonder what why i'm not in the bus lane..

ho hum.

People expect bikes to be ridden through red traffic lights. It's... normal.
But what is the penalty for doing so?

For a motor vehicle it's £60 + 3 shiney points (same as speeding) but cyclists don't need driving licenses so there might be no points involved.

To be legal you could hop off and push the bike over the white line.

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Andrew.

This question appeared on PePiPoo.
Looks like cycling through a red traffic light is a £30 non-endorseble fine or a report by summons. (although it may be debated further yet, there's a lot of law out there.)

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Andrew.

Sorry, we're surely not suggesting that its okay for pushbikes to be ridden through red lights are we?!?

Well I think there's a few issues.

Is it legal to cycle through a red light? Looks like it is not.
What is the penalty for doing so?
Is it possible to cycle through a red light safely? Well yes, sometimes.

But I think the main issue for discussion here is that at this particular bus gate thing it appears to be safer to cycle through the traffic lights (which are usually red and don't detect bikes very well if at all) than to cycle 'the legal way'.

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Andrew.

Surely only if you're perturbed at the audacity of the planners in expecting a pushbike to wait at a red light just like normal traffic!

errr.. just how long do you want me to wait?

technically... i don't think i CAN legally join the traffic as there's a solid white in the way.

Ask the Local Authority to place a "Bicycles excepted" sign on the pole?

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Ross

Yes I'm a hoon, but only on the track!!!!

I'm not sure. I think the solid line in a bus lane is the exception to the normal rule that you don't cross solid lines. I mean, you're allowed to cross it if you are a taxi or bus or it is outside of the hours of operation...?
It should really be a dashed line to save confusion.

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Andrew.

They can't just make up signs willy nilly!
Ok, I know, that doesn't stop them. Poole council have a couple of (widely ignored) "Motor vehicles prohibited except cycles" signs. What were they thinking?!

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Andrew.

As it is a specialised lane which has been setup by the LA one would assume they could create such a sign. (Note the royal 'one' as it appears that most LA's think they are above the rest..... )

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Ross

Yes I'm a hoon, but only on the track!!!!

What I mean is all signs on the road have to be prescribed or specially permitted. Just don't look at Poole Quay.
I am assuming you are meaning a sign to 'allow' bicycles to go through the red lights? I'm sure no such thing would be permitted. Well ok I'm not sure, they do silly things, but it shouldn't be.
If this were another country I would suggest a flashing amber bicycle light.
But if this were another country we probably wouldn't have bus gates anyway.

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Andrew.

True. Abroad - they have flashing ambers - but that's part of their legislation.

Once upon a time .. in Roman days .. individual communities put up siogns at their own expense. In 1648 a law was passed requiring each Parish to place guide posts at all crossroads. In 1773 - we had the General Turnpike Act (incorporated into the 1903 Motor Car Act) which required all Turnpike Trusts to erect and maintain signs, It also made it necessary to set up mile posts for the charging of tolls

(Now to be re-incorpated into Pay as you go )

The real reason was the the persons operating the tolls were

(Today's version would be "interpreting the "congested" roads to "revenue raising advantage" with all of us including cyclists having to pay evenutally

Speaking of the bicycle.. the popularity in the nineteenth century introduced a "whole new set of hazards to road users" and the law makers of the day decided that a new set of signs were needed. Steep hills and sharp bends were very dangerous to early cyclists.. and this led to the "SLOW" / "DANGER" / "CAUTION" signs They had a sign showing and skull and corss bones at the most dangerous spots (Per" Know Your Traffic Signs"

4000 signs were erected by LA and cycling clubs.. but per my little book with the potted 'istory



Perhaps that's why the fixation with speed cams ain't working


The ending of the "red flag" requirement in `1896 heralded teh era of the motor car (long may she reign ) .. and motoring associations took up the mantle of road signs/

The Motor Car Act of 1903 required L A s to place warning and prohbitory signs ... these were our current triangles for "hazard" and red rimmed lollies for "definitely and - er speed limits - were introduced - which led to the AA's formation as a protest group
as of the day were "'avin' a larf!"

Our A nd B road system wasset up in 1921 - and inscribed on the finger post signs - along with village signs and warning signs for schools and double bends.,

Motoring organisations were behind these early signs But in 1931 - it became clear that more signs and laws were needed. A comitttee convened and the results

Halt signs... Keep Left... No Entry,... Narrow Roads.. Low Bridges and this fromed the basis of our road signing unitl the early 60s.

Road markings began to appear after WW1 and the first DfT in 1926 laid down the general principles of lane markings. The double solid whites were MUST and were controlled by and traffic lights

Double whites to control dodgy overtakes were tested in 1957. It proved toi be successful and thus became LAW in 1959 and .. could prosecute for contravening the double white

That's the potted version and signs are still being developed

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Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.

We have flashing amber here, on zebra crossings and normal pedestrian crossings. So the concept isn't entirely alien. Flashing amber is good, it allows people to make their own minds up. Ah, I guess we can't be trusted with that.

I had a look on the UK Statute Law Database and couldn't find any of those old acts you mentioned. Where are they? I would like to read through some of them. Especially if they have pictures or diagrams of the signs!

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Andrew.

congratulations ziltro on picking out the only bit of IG's post actually related to the topic
(i ran out of popcorn halfway through the latter stages)