Safe Speed Forums

Hi everyone, I'm new to this site and could really do with some help.

Last Saturday at 00:10am I was taking my grandma home. I was approaching a set of lights in a one way system and was driving at about 20mph and slowing down as I got nearer the lights.

However, as I was approaching the lights were at amber and I was so near the white line that I went through as I was taught and read that it is legal to drive through an amber light if you feel it is unsafe to stop. I felt this was the case because of the following:-

1. My grandma was in the front seat and is 75 years old so didn't want to brake and give her a fright or cause her injury.

2. The road was wet and on a bend so felt if I braked then I might skid.

3. I saw a car behind me and was afraid that they would go into the back of the car.

Next thing I know the police have pulled me over and asked why I had been stopped. I apologised and said "For going through an amber light".

I was taken into the car and issued with a £60 fine and 3 penalty points. Me being a new driver means 3 more points and my licence will be revoked.

I was very upset about the situation as I am a very cautious driver and feel I did the right thing and want to take the matter to Court.

Do you think it is worth it or could I end up worse off?

PS. Sorry for the long post and your advice is appreciated as I am worried about it.

I forgot to say that she wrote down that I drove through a red light and I had 2 passengers who would back me up in saying that it was amber

First of all welcome to the site.

How far would you say you were from the lights when they changed from green to amber? Did you boot it hard when they changed or just increase back up to a reasonable (legal) speed?

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Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.

Did the officer definately tell you she'd pulled you for going through an amber at the scene? Did your witnesses hear this too?

To the best of my knowledge you need no greater justification for passing through an amber than your own feeling that it would be unsafe to stop. As long as the front of your car has crossed the solid line before the lights turn to red you are in the clear.

Did the officer have a partner in the car? Was there video recording equipment fitted? Was it recording?

If you are willing to fight it, I'd hope, and expect, you'd have a chance of overcoming the strength of the officer's word with two additional witnesses, particularly if there is a discrepancy between what she claimed to have stopped you for and what you've been summonsed with (amber/red).

Thanks for the replies.

Well I dont know exactly how far I was away from the line, my boyfriend and grandma will have a better idea but I would guess about 9/10 metres.

The policewoman didnt tell me what I had done, just asked why I thought I was stopped and I said "For going through an amber light". She then said "I can see you're upset, come into the police car".

Wasnt till the other day when I had a good look at it that she had wrote driving through red light. There were 2 PC's in the car.

Any other time I would accept it if I felt they were right but i feel stongly about this and I'm now frightened to drive incase I get another 3 points and then Im off the road

Well, having never had any trouble with the police (touch wood!) I was under the impression that dispite the charge they have to explain to you IN FULL what they stopped you / are charging you for. They can't just write it up.

I'm no expert, but if the speed and distance you've given are correct then that would mean about 1 second from you seeing the lights change to you crossing the line. The lights are SUPPOSED to stay on amber for 3 seconds.

Personally, assuming what you've said is abolutely correct (I'm not accusing you of lying BTW, just that its easy to miss something out / misunderstand etc) I would fight it.

I recon its worth heading on over to www.pepipoo.com for some better legal advice though.

Best of luck whatever you decide to do.

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Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.

Thanks, I posted on that site and still waiting for replies

How many police officers in the car?

I say fight it. BUT realise it could be a rough ride....

...on the other hand you might not hear anything again.

Sorry Amber means "Stop" always has always will.

http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/signs01.htm

As for your mitigation, it just doesn't stack up.

you say you were travelling at 20mph, you still must stop if you have not crossed the stop line

you mention you decided to go through as you felt unsafe because of the car behind, well if you had suffucient time to make such a judgement you had time to stop (recall you are only doing 20 mph), your defence will be compared with that of the witnessing police officer, it is not a defence to have made an incorrect judgement, stopping must have presented a danger of an accident, if the policewoman states on oath that no such danger was presented the court would believe her experience over yours, especially in light of your own claim as to speed.

The only defence that is assured to work is that you had already crossed the line before the lights changed to Amber.

You have just had a lesson on traffic light discipline, learn from it, don't give the system anymore opportunity to give you more points.

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Former Military Police Officer and accident investigator

Surely the only judgement one can be expected to go on in a situation such as this is your own. You cannot be expected to go through the thought process 'will a watching policewoman think pulling up might have caused an accident or not'!! I would suggest that knowing stopping would involve unusually harsh braking, and headlights close in the mirror, would be justification enough for passing an amber. I have, under those circumstances, and I would again with zero compunction.

From TSRGD 2002:

I believe that is the legal definition covering the amber phase for traffic lights.

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Andrew.

'Cannot safely be stopped' is very 'elastic' and subjective. If a driver after the event claimed he was unable to stop safely, I don't see how he could ever be proved wrong 'beyond a reasonable doubt'.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Whether she could have stopped or not is rather a moot point from what I can see. She didn't have the offence properly explained by the officer before she was booked.

_________________
Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.

Romi,

Can you let us know exactly where this happened, as it might help us to answer if we knew

(a) which police force was involved, and
(b) if there are any unusual characteristics of the junction

There's probably at least one forum member familiar with every junction in the UK.

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

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It was Strathclyde Police and it happened in Paisley in a one way sy stem so there was no traffic coming the other way.

The traffic lights were at Niddrie Street leading on to Renfrew Road

I to think i have been treated unfairly, i have just recieved a notice of int prosecution for contravening a red light but i fact i stopped before i got to the light, what i did was overshot the stop line

Why i did this ? i was on a strange road the stop line was only just visible as it had worn away and the line was situated a good 6 metres before the lights.

i too have developed a fear of driving... my job depends on my license.

Paul

From what I understand, the trigger is activated if you cross the line. It wasn't at Blunsden by any chance was it?

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Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.

Hi...no it was in Newton Abbot in Devon.

This is very likely a strong and valid defence in law.

What stage are you at?

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Sent the NIP back but to be honest can't afford to take it further and get a bigger fine court costs etc, was just going to get some pictures of junction and write of a letter of complaint about it...not that it will get me any where.