Safe Speed Forums

Thanks Dr, L - much appreciated. I'll ket you know when/if I get a summons.

Look up the postings by Anton in SafeSpeed and Pepipoo about getting your video.

Perhapse Anton could comment !

If you get the video let me know, since has been known for them to be manipulated to make it more difficult to evaluated the validity of the speeding allegation.

Check the video on single step to ensure that all the frames are there. Some video recorders step two frames at a time to give a more stable freeze frame image.

Getting the full unedited video within a court case

• Getting the full unedited video is a tricky, almost impossible task. The crown will argue it will give a way peoples faces and number plates, that it is not cps policy.

• You need to argue that it is essential to your defence,
• That the data protection act specifically deals with this issue under section 35.
• They will try to fob you off with a small segment or a private viewing at a police station this does not satisfy your need .
• You need this to see the start calibration, the event, the final calibration and any other events that show errors that have been found before in such tapes. Such as loose nuts and bolts on the scope.

• You need to digitise the tape and you need to show it to one or more exert so you need the tape in good time to get it analysed.
• They will try to bundle your case with other disclosure cases.
• These acts of law apply to the UK including Northampton
• You have come down from xxxxx and want the case to preceed as far as it can today as you need to attend to ask for this in person to the court. That it is the duty of the court to progress each case towards the swiftest fair conclision. Not to put lengthy unnecessary delays in the way of a defendant.

• Should they want to set a date for trial, these can take into account work, holliday and training commitments


Criminal Procedure and Investigations Act 1996
1996 Chapter 25 - continued

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1996/1996025.htm section 8

8. - (1) This section applies where the accused gives a defence statement under section 5 or 6 and the prosecutor complies with section 7 or purports to comply with it or fails to comply with it.

(2) If the accused has at any time reasonable cause to believe that-

(a) there is prosecution material which might be reasonably expected to assist the accused's defence as disclosed by the defence statement given under section 5 or 6, and
(b) the material has not been disclosed to the accused,
the accused may apply to the court for an order requiring the prosecutor to disclose such material to the accused.

(3) For the purposes of this section prosecution material is material-

(a) which is in the prosecutor's possession and came into his possession in connection with the case for the prosecution against the accused,
(b) which, in pursuance of a code operative under Part II, he has inspected in connection with the case for the prosecution against the accused, or
(c) which falls within subsection (4).
(4) Material falls within this subsection if in pursuance of a code operative under Part II the prosecutor must, if he asks for the material, be given a copy of it or be allowed to inspect it in connection with the case for the prosecution against the accused.

(5) Material must not be disclosed under this section to the extent that the court, on an application by the prosecutor, concludes it is not in the public interest to disclose it and orders accordingly.

(6) Material must not be disclosed under this section to the extent that-

(a) it has been intercepted in obedience to a warrant issued under section 2 of the Interception of Communications Act 1985, or
(b) it indicates that such a warrant has been issued or that material has been intercepted in obedience to such a warrant.


http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1998/19980029.htm
Data Protection Act 1998
1998 Chapter 29
Section 35

35. - (1) Personal data are exempt from the non-disclosure provisions where the disclosure is required by or under any enactment, by any rule of law or by the order of a court.

(2) Personal data are exempt from the non-disclosure provisions where the disclosure is necessary-

(a) for the purpose of, or in connection with, any legal proceedings (including prospective legal proceedings), or
(b) for the purpose of obtaining legal advice,
or is otherwise necessary for the purposes of establishing, exercising or defending legal rights.

This posting is better suited to pepipoo, however is is just your legal rights to see the evidence.

PS who let TSM back in? don't do it again!

_________________
Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code

Thanks Anton

Update: No news is good news! The 6 month limit will kick in on 2nd January and I'm hoping that Xmas will mean they are too busy to get in a court application before then. So I guess if I don't hear anything by the end of Jan then I'm off the hook!

aren't the court service going on strike too?

So they waited till the VERY last day to submit an application for summons. 29th December was the last working day before the 2nd of January, I almost got off on a timeout. Damn their eyes!

So now I have now have of court date of 30th January for a speeding offence and a s.172 non disclosure offence. They have provided printed photographs (rear of car) and witness statements by operator, film handlers and admin person. They have also sent a copy of my PACE letter.

Now I am confident that if I turn up at court and produce my PACE ws letter the s.172 will be thrown out - as it should be. The letter clearly fulfills the requirements of notifying police of the driver.

However, if I produce the letter in court to counter the s.172 charge will the CPS be able to use the letter against me on the speeding charge as I was the one that brought it up in court?

Can I use the PACE ws letter to defend myself against the s.172 but declare it inadmissible evidence for the speeding charge?

In the meantime I am going to write to them asking for copies of the original tapes as suggested.

I intend to turn up in court and defend myself and the more information I can gather the better. Right now I think I am likely to get the 3 points and £60 fine (+£35 costs) unless I can come up with some good arguments. I cannot afford a solicitor but I am looking in to legal aid.

Many thanks,

Cheesey

So I have a conclusion to this tale.

Due to my personal financial circumstances as well as being very busy I eventually decided to plead guilty to the speeding charge and not guilty to the s.172. As a result I got 3 points, £60 fine and £35 costs awarded against me, which I can pay over 4 months. Unsurprisingly the s.172 charge was dropped, but I wasn't notified and had to ask directly.

In the end I felt I couldn't cope with the work involved in pleading NG, not to mention the stress and the possibility of greater fines and costs and travel to N'hants. Although I am disappointed that it came to this I only had to pay an additional £35 in the end. The PACE letter gave me a good bit of hope for 6 months but I couldn't take it any further. I think you have to be very dedicated to fight the scammers through the courts, but I respect those that do - especially if caught by a mobile speed camera.

I would like to thank those that helped me directly as well as those hard working types that contribute so much to this forum.

All the best,

Cheesey

The bullying tactics claim another victim

Yes BUT Let's remember that Cheesey considered treading the torturous path that would have cost more money (at least temporarily). I think s/he expressed courage here and should not be seen as having "failed" at all. It was an expedient call and likely one 99% of people in his position would have made - without posting on here.

Quite, I cannot fault cheesy for one second, though I was not entirely sure how to convey that adequately.

The way they hang s172 over people's heads to force a confession is absolutely despicable!