Safe Speed Forums

I encountered both extremes today, I had to drive to Wales and back..

In the snowy and slushy local roads, I was tailgated by rollerskates and vans. I have AWD and a reasonable amount of snow experience and was driving as fast as I felt was safe based on the car's stability and braking distance. (yes, that space Mr Corsa just pulled into, that was my braking distance, thanks!)

On the A roads which were completely snow free apart from a small pile along the centre line, some people wanted to do 20 and held everyone up. Fortunately it was still possible to overtake with a bit of careful planning. The pile wasn't that high, just have to be careful when crossing it.

Also, look at this idiot (not my pic), the one on the left. *sigh*

There's snow?

I wonder how many people accidentally forgot to remove the snow from their numberplates?

Even though there is no snow here, I have noticed a few people lately driving faster than is really sensible. Within the speed limit, of course.

If snow happened there could well be, erm, issues.

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Andrew.

Problem is that when one or two snowflkes fall, combined with a forecast of snow , two things happen ---

With no snow about on the road , people drive at 20 or less on clear roads ( the same lot that are up yer ass in the rain)
When wheels start spinning because there is snow on road idiots law states that the car will move better if the front wheels are spining.

tsk, I wheeled her out of the garage, blipped the throttle to wake some of the seven and a half horses and left the drive performing a rare rolling burnout, or should that be freezeout ...

Funny thing about schools....those with real jobs manage to make it in to work OK - we have people from Devizes who made it to Swindon OK yesterday, and our MD went from Swindon to Brum for a meeting yesterday morning OK.

So why is it the teachers cannot get into work precisely? Normal people think "it's going to snow so I will get up early and leave home early"......

I can understand this in very rural areas, but not in urban environments which have good road treatments!

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"Are you sh**ing me?"
"John Spartan, you are fined one credit for a violation of the verbal morality statute."

thats a pretty offensive post about teachers really.
i agree they're not normal but i'm not sure why you don't consider it a proper job? most certainly work more hours than many in industry.

i agree many schools were pointlessly closed yesterday (and today!) but there are specific requirements on health & safety, duty of care, heating and number of staff which makes the operation of a school alot easier to jeopordise than an office/business.

Thats not a fair comment, you are quite welcome to take time from your "real" job and try mine.





This much is true, I get to work over an hour early(this is to prepare my fake job day). I very much doubt every one thinks as you has stated. However poor weather can cause delays which you cannot plan for.
All staff need to be there by 8:30 to sort out tutor groups etc. What do you do with the children if you do not have enough staff arriving on time? or if half the children turn up or dift in late?The day becomes disrupted, so the educational vaule of the day is lost. If you went to your real job and found you could not do it, would you see the point in going?

In my school it was impossible to drive up the hill to it. Humm I wonder what would happen if a child fell, or there was any form of
accident on site. The first question would be WHY WAS THE SCHOOL NOT CLOSED?

The teachers did not decide this, a few friends had to turn back. So they set of to work like people with real jobs. I was ready to go car defrosted etc. but was told to wait to see what the news said. The guy in charge of Birmingham LEA chose to close the schools.

Also note he was on the news justifying why he had apparently left it so late to close the schools, unlike our next door neighbours (Dudley). Funny to think if the snow did not come the guy in charge of Dudley LEA would have to justify his actions.

I have work in Birmignaham LEA for three years now this is the frist time my school has closed.

Closing the schools probably reduced the traffic on the roads, for you people with you real jobs to get to work easier.

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Oct 11 Birmingham Half Marathon. I am running for the British Heart Foundation.
http://www.justgiving.com/Rob-Taylor

Yeah, reading it again it was a bit offensive and it wasn't meant to be.

My real point is, if they said "We are closing the school for health and safety reasons", I would have no problem with that at all. The fact that the usual excuse is trotted out about teachers not being able to get into school does them no favours as everyone I know thinks its a standing joke when people with "industry" jobs make it into work on time with bad weather.

Maybe they work more hours than people in industry, maybe they don't. Perhaps this balances with the 3 months holiday teachers get, perhaps it doesn't. I really don't know and like any job, it depends how committed they are as to how many hours they work.

I do feel sorry for them though as with the PC climate today, they cannot control and instill respect - so how the hell can you teach when there is no respect? The government has cut them off at the knees.

But I think my intended post as described above stands - they aren't doing themselves any favours by this message being presented to parents......and I apologise if any offense was caused to anyone by my badly worded original post about this.

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"Are you sh**ing me?"
"John Spartan, you are fined one credit for a violation of the verbal morality statute."

i find it sad how much people assume they know about teaching.

not having enough staff IS a health & safety issue.

teacher's working hours are rarely what people perceive as school hours 8 till 6 is not unusual not including taking work home. similarly no, they dont have 3 months of holidays.. they have 3months when they are not actively teaching perhaps but there is still alot of paperwork & preparation to be done.

The question about snow on the numberplates is an interesting one.

My car is garaged, so I didn't have the issue, but by the time I'd gotten to Chieveley services, the lower half of the plate (I have a two-line plate) was completely covered in grey snow and unreadable, perfect for the M4!

Seriously though, are you supposed to stop at every services and clean it or what? should cars be fitted with numberplate cameras so that the driver can constantly monitor the status of their plates to ensure full compliance with this important road safety law?

Come on, teaching is a mixed bag, but they don't have it that hard. The holiday time is phenominal, even if some of it is spent working, but on the downside, imagine only being able to take a holiday when all the schools were off; higher prices for everything and loads of screaming brats about!!

The biggest problem I can see with the schools shutting when the rest of the world does not, is that working parents are placed into a quandry about what to do with their kids for the day if they are still to go to work.

ooops sorry.... i forgot to run incensed mode off

[/incensed]

ok, carry on.

TEACHERS DO NOT CHOOSE TO CLOSE SCHOOLS
in Birmingham and Dudley the LEA chose to close the schools, the teachers did not. Why should I be to blame for a decision that was not mine. I WAS TOLD NOT TO GO TO WORK!

You make it sound like we see a flake of snow, and think lets not bother.
Most teachers would have tried to go in.

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Oct 11 Birmingham Half Marathon. I am running for the British Heart Foundation.
http://www.justgiving.com/Rob-Taylor

I don't think anyone is blaming the teachers ree.t.

IMO most of the UK does that, but I was brought up in Canada, so apply a different standard to 'wintery' conditions

Sorry it feels like it.
IF the school was open I would go. Mostly cos I am bored (and there is no more snow to play in ). The only reasons I can think of as to why schools are closed are:
Health and Saftey.
Staff and pupils etc arriving late(or not arriving) can cause problems with sorting out the day. ie some classes full and others with 4 or 5 pupils in them, or not each teachers to teach.
The schools where probbaly closed today because of the half term.

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Oct 11 Birmingham Half Marathon. I am running for the British Heart Foundation.
http://www.justgiving.com/Rob-Taylor

ree.t, on reflection this is one of those instances where the LEA would be damned if they did close the schools and damned if they didn't. However we were listening to a discussion about it on the radio this morning with a couple of colleagues who have kids of school age and some valid points were made both ways.

One colleage made the point that it is a legal requirement to send your kids to school and yet the LEA could, on a whim and a threat of bad weather, close them! Listening to the radio discussion one couldn't help but get the impression that, in a risk averse society, the LEA were more intersted in trying to sidestep their duty of care problem rather than having to come up with solutions to it. This was certainly the view of many who called in who were stuck with the problem of finding alternative care for their kids on days when they should have been in school.

On the other hand, it was pointed out that many of those who were complaining would be amongst the first to cry foul if little Tommy tripped and bruised his knee on a slippery playground.

I recall when the snows fell when I was a kid, if your teacher never made it in, you were herded into the assembly hall, sat down and given something to keep you occupied.

Its a conundrum certainly, but I can't help but think that in our "Injuwy Lawyers For U" society, we have collectively brought this upon ourselves.

We talked about this over lunch. We think the schools should declare an 'option day' where parents decide if they should send their kids to school or not.

If the parents do, then they accept the special risks associated with bad weather.

I think this covers all the bases. The difficulty of travelling should roughly balance staff and pupil numbers whatever the conditions.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

What about situations like Central London schools where the teachers have 3 hour commutes (if they can still get the train.. wrong kind of snow on the track) because they can't afford to live near work, but the kids are all local?

In todays age of sueing, I don't think it's safe to rely on the numbers balancing.

Had this situation this week and was told that I would lose a days' holiday as other members of staff had managed to get in. Usually I take my motorbike. The one time I took the train, in decent weather, it took 2 hours so no chance of a reasonable journey in the snow we had.

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