Safe Speed Forums

Last Thursday evening (16th) I headed up to Preston to collect my daughter from UCLAN for her Xmas break. I used that strip of highway crafted from the fires of Hades by Beelzebub himself, the M6
Guess what? There was an accident at J18, I joined the carpark at J16 and proceeded to inch my way inexorably Northwards.
At around the 1m sign for J17 I noticed an HGV whizz by on the hardshoulder. This seemed to act as a catalyst for others, as pretty soon there was a steady stream of vehicles sailing by using the hardshoulder to get up to J17.
So trafpol, supposing you'd be stationed up on a bridge overlooking the motorway and seen this going on. What would you have done?

a. Nothing - at least they were clearing the snarlup
b. Attempted to go down there and make them rejoin the main carriagway (a bit risky perhaps)
c. Attempted to book the lot of them - impossible propbably
d. Monitored the situation in case someone needed to use the hardshoulder for a genuine reason, but let the 'escapees' get on with it
e. Something else?

I'd get down and do the hard shoulder run, in the unlikely event that we're not required to assist with the RTC. Maintain a presence at 30-40mph on the hard shoulder, stop and book anyone we can for the offence, although we're only likely to get the back of the queue. Thery're not helping clear anything, just seriously pi**ing other motorists off, and creating an added collision/ road rage risk.

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Fixed ideas are like cramp, for instance in the foot, yet the best remedy is to step on them.

Ian

Is this very different to motor-cyclists filtering between lanes? That certainly can p1$$ people off. It used to me, but I am so used to it now...

Well using the hardshoulder except in an emergency is explicitly illegal. As a motorcyclist as well as a car driver, I cannot for the life of me see why drivers get a bottom lip wobble when bikers filter between stationary or extremely slow moving traffic. I do it myself. Its almost as if they're wailing..Its not fair 'sob'. If I'm stuck here, so should you be.
I don't do it when the traffic is flowing freely though.
So yes, its completely different.

Yes - that I think, used to be my juvenile thought - as I said, no more.

Ah but on the other hand when I filter I do get a great feeling of smugness along the lines of "Nah na na na nah your stick and I'm not" (sung to an infntile tune)

Yes, it is different. And bikes filtering shouldn't upset anyone. I actually feel good for the biker. They are not adding to the queue, they are helping clear it.

The odd car is probably not going to cause a problem bar some freak accident where a passenger steps out for a pee.

What happens though if everybody thinks using the hard shoulder is a good idea? Then it suddenly loses it's purpose and we may as well make it into a 4th lane and have 4 lanes of stationary traffic. Which is an idea the mad boffins at the DFT keep coming up with, and we all know how mad they are.

Sadly it's another symptom of leaving policing to PC Gatso, everyone knows there won't be a trafpol parked down the road and if there is he will be too busy handing out £80 fines to drunks, or filling in paperwork.

What would I like to see? Each driver stopped, warned, and sent back onto the motorway in the opposite direction.

A slightly devil's advocate post.


So are cars filtering along the hard shoulder. In fact, bikes *colud* queue up six abreast without blocking any lanes or risking accidents. Taking that line, a car filtering down the hard shoulder is in fact clearing the queue behind more than six motor cyclists filtering is clearing it.


Whereas motor-cyclists filtering are likely to cop lane-chagers and the like.


Agreed. Is this not again uncanilly parallel to having a small lane between lanes 1 & 2 (or 2 & 3) solely for motor bikes, narrowing the others down? If so, why not have a motorcycle-only lane adjacent to the central reservation?


Agreed. Surely this should also apply to bike filtration as well as shoulder-slopers?


I have no such malice for filtering motor-cyclists. The chances are they'd go up and back before I got to the end of the jam. I don't want them scaring me again!

But a bike filtering between lines of cars is utilising a space that would otherwise go unused. The hard-shoulder on the other hand is expressly for use in an emergency. The fact that the space is there is irrelevant, using it is illegal, filtering between cars on a motorbike (if done sensibly) is not.


Possibly, particularly if one decides to change lanes without flicking that little switch under their left or right fingers. As I said, 'sensibly'
My concern at watching the HGVs in particular was "what if someone broke down and needed to be pushd onto the hard-shoulder"?. How the heck do you do that with artics bearing down on you?



Not sure what you mean here.


Nope, not at all. Shoulder-slopers are breaking the law.

This is exactly what I would do as well. They would also get a very acid lecture on the use of the hard shoulder, and I would leave them with the thought that they have got off lightly with 3 points too. (MW10 - contravention of special roads regs - this excludes speeding!) Have been known to chuck a dangerous driving charge on one bloke for this in the past - but he was driving along at 60 mph along the hard shoulder at the time. Oh - and then there was the one who sat there having a picnic tea .... That was another I did for dangerous driving


Um .... do use me discretion sometimes - honest - but there are limits - even for a nice cuddly bloke like me!

The context was where the current powers-that-be are considering making an extra (fourth) lane by narrowing current lanes and possibly also making the hard shoulder narrower in an attempt to reduce congestion. This in itself of course will make filtering more difficult/more dangerous between lanes, possibly forcing the impatient motor-cyclist to the shoulder to bypass queues they used to bypass by tearing along the dotted line.

What I was putting into the melting pot was, instead of making four lanes from three, narrowing the shoulder to boot, how about making three slightly narrower than normal lanes plus a "half-lane" against the central reservation for motor cycles only, leaving the shoulder as is? This I submit would overcome much of the filtering dangers (only one side to worry about), and at the same time not restrict the width of the shoulder and therefore not compromise its current use for emergency stopping and emergency vehicles "filtering".

What's the point in that? Being a biker myself it is laudable that you would be happy to be squeezed across to create our own special lane. However bikes on the motorway are decidedly in the minority and would be of little benefit, cars would get more fed up with seeing that empty than they do seeing the shoulder empty and would make use of it, because to be a viable bike lane it would need to be about the width of a car

Anyway I'd suggest you're just taking the piss now? Filtering on a bike is very hard work, you need eyes in the back of your head! to filter safely you can only go about 10MPH faster than the traffic anyway. Once the traffic goes above about 20MPH it's just plain dangerous. IMHO

Max

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Tailgaters - Please Pass
You have an Accident to go to!

Wasn't taking the piss - at least not deliberately. It was a genuine suggestion. After all, we have cycle lanes in towns - and the inexpliccable widening out in front of traffic lights for them to come to rest and hold up four-wheeled traffic as it starts off - so why not a bike lane on certain motorways?

I agree fully that once traffic is over a crawl filtering is dangerous - yet, like others on here, I've also been the "victim" of exceptionally high speed filtering. If the plans to get four narrow lanes and a not-quite-so-narrow shoulder where presently we have three goes ahead, and they fill up, filtering will be next to impossible. However, I'm sure some will still try it - and there will be scrapes.

I can see you weren't taking the piss deliberately, and once you mentioned cycle lanes it all makes sense. I'm affraid it's just as daft as the Bus lanes on the M4 or wherever it was. The fact is 99.99% (My estimate, am I close?) of traffic on the motorways is either a car, a truck or a coach. So to cater for anything else specifically is a waste of resources. The HOV (is that the correct term?) lane is slightly different as the main aim is to reduce traffic, still don't think it will work but I know the yanks have persisted with it. I agree with you on the cycle lanes though, by all means have a cycle lane as well but to just mark off the edge of the road is lunacy.

As for high speed filtering, I don't do it and would suggest the best attitude of seeing anyone in your mirror doing it, (Assuming you are one of the few who see bikes coming) would be to give them room as per the tailgater, "Go have your accident somewhere else."

Max

_________________
Tailgaters - Please Pass
You have an Accident to go to!