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 Post subject: Speed kills?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 16:00 
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Sorry if I am covering old news here, and it's rather long, but I feel compelled to speak out on the issue of speeding. I'm new to 'Safe Speed' and don't know where to post anything for maximum viewing on this subject: -

Why-O-Why don't 'we' look around the world and see how things are done better/wiser? Outside schools, these days we often have a 20 MPH limit, whether children are present or not. In California, where I worked for two years, they have a sign which states; '40 MPH, 25MPH when children are present'. If you are caught doing so much as 2 MPH over the limit when children are present you stand to get a ticket. Good common sense. (And 'we' think the Americans are dumb).
I work for the NHS, in Rehabilitation. The last thing I want to do is hurt or kill someone and yet I speed every time I use the roads. So why is my record impeccable after 32 years of driving and riding? Because, like most good drivers, I'm looking at the road conditions and situation or as a police friend of mine would say, "if you're constantly looking at your speed and other road furniture, you're probably not concentrating on the road as much as you should". Good common sense again I think.

The hypocrisy surrounding speeding irks me to the point of nausea. Everybody speeds; doctors, couriers, firemen and even mom taking little Johnny to school. (It's always Johnny for some reason) I see it in the UK and on my travels around the world but the UK seems to be the most excessive and obsessive about speeding and cameras. It's not uncommon to follow a police car and see they too exceed the limit whilst very obviously not an a call but they are no more a threat to the public than I am.

You name him or her, they all speed and I get sick and tired of hearing someone say that they never do. It's nonsense! If these very same people who claim never to exceed the limit were followed as they go about their journey, at some point they would go over the limit. I should say I am referring to those who go actually use the roads to get somewhere, not those who only ever go on a trip to the local shops or shuffle in traffic to get to a place of work they could well get to quicker by push bike. I feel especially sorry for those who have to do a great many miles per year through their work, which they do in perfect safety year after year but stand a much higher risk of being 'done'. This group are probably safer than most for all their experience!

Let's just state something obvious here: By definition, if you are so much, (or so little), as one mph over the limit you are effectively speeding and I, for one, wouldn't want to be a passenger in the same vehicle as someone so obsessed with how fast they are driving that they are constantly checking their speed. I think they are far more of a danger than someone who is paying less attention to their speedometer and more attention to the road.

So why don't we tell it as it is? It is not just speed which is the demon on our roads so much as the inappropriate use of speed. What is infinitely more important to my mind is that we drive according to the conditions and within our own limitations.

I'd like to submit two possible scenarios. Picture it if you will:

1) You are travelling on a road with a 30 MPH limit on a clear or sunny day. You are travelling uphill and there's absolutely no-one around or any parked vehicles. You are alone, alert and have 20/20 vision. The vehicle you're in has ABS braking, and the tyres are new.

2) You are travelling downhill on the very same road at a time when it is overcast or dark. It is raining and there are pedestrians going about their business while hanging on to their umbrellas. There are some cars parked by the roadside and you haven't had an eye test since you passed your driving test umpteen years ago, so things aren't quite as sharp as they should be. Maybe you have also had a drink, but nothing which would put you over the legal limit. Your car doesn't have ABS and the tyres are just about legal. Your partner is chatting to you over the radio and the kids are noisy; playing-up in the back.

By law, you could be doing exactly the same speed in either case on the very same stretch of road but which situation is safer? The difference in both potential danger and overall stopping distance is massive and yet it's a 30mph limit in either direction regardless of the conditions. So far as I am aware, these speed limits have never been based on a worst case scenario so I assume that we have always been given the responsibility to take all these factors into account and adjust our driving according to the conditions.

If it were me, I personally may be doing in excess of 30mph in the first instance but considerably less in the second, or better still I may take a taxi. The simple point I am trying to make is that I am using my good judgement, (a risk assessment as it is known), which is what all good drivers do, all of the time!

There's a very good reason why insurance goes down with age and I'm certain it's not just because the older, or safer sex, do not speed. They are less of a risk on our roads quite simply because they are safer drivers and surely this what we all want? If you have a careless, irresponsible or foolish person behind the wheel you are still going to have accidents and fatalities even if they were forced to abide strictly to every limit! I know because I sometimes get to see them and the heart ache it causes to both them and their loved ones.

So then, the day we can put the emphasis on bad drivers, as opposed to simply targeting speed and making money from speed cameras, then perhaps we can address the real problem of how to make our roads safer. I wish we would get away from the fallacious argument that anyone who simply speeds is some kind of egotistical maniac with a total disregard for the law on a selfish mission simply to get somewhere as fast as possible.

When I was learning to drive I was always told, and still hold it to be true, that driving demands 100% concentration. I am proud of the fact that I have an impeccable safe driving record and I want to keep it that way. We should not, therefore, become paranoid about speed or have our eyes distracted from the road any more than absolutely necessary which includes not having to constantly keep our speed in check.

I am old enough to remember how things used to be: If you were careless enough to get caught speeding by a police officer who was pursuing you, depending on the prevailing conditions and your speed, (and if you were respectful towards the officer), you may just get off with a warning. It would certainly shake you up! It made you think about your driving and afterwards you would realise that perhaps you're not as vigilant or careful as you thought you were. If you were prosecuted you weren't exactly happy about it but at least you didn't feel any sense of injustice for not being observant enough. It was effective and you had a greater respect for the law than some machine which serves only as a money-making distraction.

I think the whole speeding issue and how it is tackled today absolutely makes for terrible relations between the public and the police, and also for the integrity of our political system. For most of us, the only time that the law-abiding public are ever likely to get into hot water is on the subject of speeding. With the continuing obsession and proliferation of camera's and speed traps, before long there will be just two types of motorist out there: those who have been caught and those who are yet to be caught - and how will society function then?

Big Tone


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 Post subject: Re: Speed kills?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 16:20 
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:welcome: Big Tone. That's a heck of a first post.

Big Tone wrote:
The simple point I am trying to make is that I am using my good judgement, (a risk assessment as it is known), which is what all good drivers do, all of the time!

:yesyes: I don't see very many drivers driving at the speed limit, on any type of road, on snow!

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 16:25 
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:welcome:

Brilliant post.

You are reflecting the heartfelt views of SafeSpeed members.

Where have you been? :)

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 16:54 
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:welcome: Big Tone...

I think you're going to like it here.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 17:22 
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:welcome: Tone, I think you'll fit in around here just fine!

If you browse the rest of the forums and the main site over time, I'm sure you'll feel right at home!


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 18:04 
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Welcome BT - I hope you haven't got it all off your chest and disapear without trace!! :roll:

Any chance you'll be standing for election for the next government? :D

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 22:30 
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Wow! :welcome: and :hello: Big Tone.

As they would say in the USA

:listenup: WAY TO GO .. FELLA! :clap: :clap: :clap: :bow: :bow: :clap:

There is only one thing to say about speed policy in this country :gatso1: :gatso2: :gatso3:

To justify these scams .. they have big signs proclaiming several hundred casualties on this road... in the last year/two years (A591 here in the Lakes where I live .. and A14 in Cambridgeshire come to mind - because both roads are local to members of my family) Both these roads have increased in accident rate since these scams appeared .. and it is not me who placed the signs admitting they had done nothing to reduce incidents either .. but the very people who insisted these devices had reduced the incidents on these roads :roll:


But... whilst this country still has the lowest incident rate in Europe for the present and perhaps not for much longer given this toll.. far more people are receiving fines and penalty points for trivial offences .. :roll:


As for these incidents... a quick perusal of any local paper points to drunken, drugged, illegally on the road, illegally in this country or just plain young, daft and inexperienced, or fatigued from a long hours culture.. :roll: as being the prime causes of all these incidents. :roll:

The ones copped speeding - usually marginal blips and absolutely safe enough to themselves and others.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 13:13 
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:welcome: Big Tone

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 13:19 
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Yes, :welcome:

I think you'll fit in just fine!

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 13:50 
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:welcome: Big Tone

Paul has been saying the same thing for years. Unfortunately, government ministers have not been listening :(

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 17:00 
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Thanks for the welcome. I feel I'm in good company.

I'm certainly no martyr, but sometimes when the B.S. gets to screaming pitch you have to say or do something and I'm glad there are sites like Safe Speed acting as the voice of reason. Just like the ill-fated Child Support fiasco, I fear it'll be a long time before the truth comes out and common sense prevails but oh well...

Like so many people, I need my licence for my job. In my case, because I have to see patients throughout the Midlands, Staffs and Wales. I have a clean licence, so far, but I actually believe it's more good luck than judgement.

I probably average in excess of 30,000 miles a year using a combination of my own car, the pool cars at work and on my motorbike. I've driven and ridden on the continent and used motorbikes in conditions an Eskimo would feel at home in. In all this time I haven't harmed or killed anyone, EVER, including myself. So, without wishing to sound arrogant, I think at the very least it suggests I must be doing something right.

I was prompted to write to Safe Speed because over the past few years there have been people I know getting caught for speeding by just a few mph over the limit. These people feel criminalized and have never been 'done' before in their life. As well as personal friends, the list includes such 'maniacs' as: middle age doctors, speech & language therapists, occupational therapists, clinical scientists, etc. etc. The list goes on…

Now please don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that other people are not every bit as responsible, but imagine what these guys do for a living. I myself see more pain and suffering in one month than most people are privileged never to see in a lifetime. So, does anyone think for one minute in their wildest imagination that these kind of people are likely to use the roads irresponsibly with all this weighing their their minds?

In one aspect of my job, if the emergency services scrape someone off the road and they still have a pulse, I sometimes get to see them. So, without going into detail, please believe me when I say it's quite an incentive to drive or ride carefully and yet, just like all the aforementioned, I go over the speed limit. (I actually prefer the word speed 'recommendation')

Here's the revelation: The two CAN safely co-exist - there is no contradiction!

I have two ears and one mouth which I will use in that proportion from now on folks. Thanks for listening and take care.

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 19:46 
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Big Tone wrote:
I have two ears and one mouth which I will use in that proportion from now on folks. Thanks for listening and take care.


Given the medium, I tend to work on the principal that I have 2 eyes but 10 fingers! Whatever you're comfortable with :P


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 08:58 
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RobinXe wrote:
Big Tone wrote:
I have two ears and one mouth which I will use in that proportion from now on folks. Thanks for listening and take care.


Given the medium, I tend to work on the principal that I have 2 eyes but 10 fingers! Whatever you're comfortable with :P


10 fingers?! What a freak! Personally I have 8 fingers and 2 thumbs... :P :D

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 09:49 
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Ook ook


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 23:22 
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Big Tone wrote:
Thanks for the welcome. I feel I'm in good company.

I'm certainly no martyr, but sometimes when the B.S. gets to screaming pitch you have to say or do something and I'm glad there are sites like Safe Speed acting as the voice of reason. Just like the ill-fated Child Support fiasco, I fear it'll be a long time before the truth comes out and common sense prevails but oh well...

Like so many people, I need my licence for my job. In my case, because I have to see patients throughout the Midlands, Staffs and Wales. I have a clean licence, so far, but I actually believe it's more good luck than judgement.

I probably average in excess of 30,000 miles a year using a combination of my own car, the pool cars at work and on my motorbike. I've driven and ridden on the continent and used motorbikes in conditions an Eskimo would feel at home in. In all this time I haven't harmed or killed anyone, EVER, including myself. So, without wishing to sound arrogant, I think at the very least it suggests I must be doing something right.

I was prompted to write to Safe Speed because over the past few years there have been people I know getting caught for speeding by just a few mph over the limit. These people feel criminalized and have never been 'done' before in their life. As well as personal friends, the list includes such 'maniacs' as: middle age doctors, speech & language therapists, occupational therapists, clinical scientists, etc. etc. The list goes on…

Now please don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that other people are not every bit as responsible, but imagine what these guys do for a living. I myself see more pain and suffering in one month than most people are privileged never to see in a lifetime. So, does anyone think for one minute in their wildest imagination that these kind of people are likely to use the roads irresponsibly with all this weighing their their minds?

In one aspect of my job, if the emergency services scrape someone off the road and they still have a pulse, I sometimes get to see them. So, without going into detail, please believe me when I say it's quite an incentive to drive or ride carefully and yet, just like all the aforementioned, I go over the speed limit. (I actually prefer the word speed 'recommendation')

Here's the revelation: The two CAN safely co-exist - there is no contradiction!

I have two ears and one mouth which I will use in that proportion from now on folks. Thanks for listening and take care.


:love:

Liebchen.. If not alredy madly .. deeply .. truly ..und 100% committed to the Mad Doc.. I think I would fall in love with you as a true kindred spirit. :love: :lol:

We look to perfect skills as constant. By posting ..we hope to motivate und enthuse towards safety led skills.

Those who deride are really complacent oafs . Sadly these end up very dead sooner or later. :cry:

We try to help .. take or leave it .. we win.. you lose .. life

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 11:20 
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If there is such a thing as rebirth I hope to come back as a Yak in Tibet. Stress free, haplessly munching away on something munchable. Nobody bugging me. Sure, I'd miss my motorbike but the air is clean and at least I wouldn't live in fear of being done for speeding. That said, if the British law found me they'd probably do me for munching without due care and attention with three points branded on my rear.

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 13:23 
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Big Tone wrote:
These people feel criminalized and have never been 'done' before in their life. As well as personal friends, the list includes such 'maniacs' as: middle age doctors, speech & language therapists, occupational therapists, clinical scientists, etc. etc. The list goes on…


I'm never comfortable with the idea of offering lists of peoples professions as being indicative of their driving ability or even their attitude towards the task. They may not mean to, but such individuals do, from time to time, kill fellow road users.
Some of the worst behaviour I witness on the roads is perpetrated by people who, by their attire and vehicle choice, I will take the liberty of assuming are professional, upstanding individuals in their own field.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 13:40 
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I tend to agree with Rigpig. I don't wish to be inflammatory, but those drivers who appear more affluent, by their attire and vehicle choice, are often those who show less consideration for other road users. I also tend to see these drivers more often on their phones at the wheel, perhaps understandably, as their professions are more likely to require them to be in touch as 'busy people', but this is certainly no excuse.

I would say that driver profession, beyond those trades where machine skills are paramount, is not necessarily and indicator of driver skill, and certainly no indicator of driver attitude and/or quality.


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 Post subject: Opps!
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 14:07 
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I am entirely in agreement with you on the point that it doesn't necessarily follow that if you are rich or in a job of some standing that you drive well and I hope I didn't look like I was suggesting it.

Maybe I was a little clumsy with how I said what I said. (I'll re-read it later) All I was suggesting is that people whom I know to be careful drivers and have an very intimate knowledge of the consequeces of bad driving are being done for speeding.

The one doctor I know was done for 33mph in a 30 limit, which from what people have told me ought not to be possible. UH?

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.


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 Post subject: Question
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 16:19 
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I promise I will quieten down eventually but my head just thought of something. (Yes, I know what you're thinking: An empty can makes more noise:-)

I would like to know who and how these limits are made? I'd love to know the criteria because I swear I see roads and surroundings which are the same but have different limits.

I was prosecuted for speeding back in 1977 for doing, (if my memory serves me well), just over 40mph in a 30 limit. I was going that fast because the conditions were favourable: Dual carriageway with two lanes on each side, no parked cars and the only people up were two police officers who had set up a trap along this stretch and were waiting in a side road much further up. It was early on a Sunday morning and the sun was shining. I didn't believe it was dangerous but I guess you would say it's a fair cop.

Imagine how I felt when within about a year of this happening to me, the speed limit was changed to 40mph! I can swear to you on everything that's precious to me, absolutely nothing in the area had changed. No school nearby which had closed; the housing was the same as it ever was. I knew the whole area and I can tell you there was absolutely nothing new or different about it.

It looks different today, with cars parked the entire stretch, but back then it looked baron - like a small empty stretch of motorway.

It's still a 40 limit to this day even though there are more people and shops etc. If anything, I would put the limit back down to 30 today. I actually do less than 40 on this road when it looks busy. (You see, once again I'm using my good judgement).

For reference I can tell you it's called the Reddich Road, the part that stretches from an island by a pub called the Man on The Moon heading north towards Birmingham. Maybe Google Earth will show it but my connection is too slow:-(

Just for interest, the pub used to be called the Man in the Moon until 1969 when it became 'on'.


Well it's POETS day so catch ya next week...

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.


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