Safe Speed Forums

http://www.safespeed.org.uk/forum/viewt ... 8&start=45

Also see this thread, which since the last mention has had some additions explaining how traffic lights can be made safe on 60 and 70 mph roads.

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

Like PeterE said

This post is not directed towards anyone, just me having a little paddy...

In Australia we have the red/green and it works very well. If you are day dreaming at lights and you are the first car and you don't see the change you deserve to be tooted.

This is in fact one of my pet hates. Sitting at a side road with a VERY small green cycle going onto a main road, which has a VERY long green cycle, and the twit in front is not watching the lights. By the time you toot them and they decide to put the car in gear and then start to move the lights go amber and you miss them.

If you are the first car at the traffic lights WATCH THE BLOODY THINGS and be ready to move as soon as they change, subject to a visual check left and right for cars running a red light of course.

I feel better now that that's off my chest...

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Ross

Yes I'm a hoon, but only on the track!!!!

The increase in running red lights might be due to the general rotting of the driving culture that has been happening for years due to the rise of the 'me' generation. Indeed, if less drivers had been guilty of zooming along, thumb in bum, mind in neutral, blowing red lights, tailgating and speeding in the 30 zone etc., locals and the 'authorities' might have remained passive and we might have less of these speed cameras, light cameras and humps and chicanes and what have you. If one group of road users disregards their obligations, then a backlash is certain sooner or later.

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I stole this .sig

Certainly with a 3 second amber, I would agree with that.

This is frustrating, yes. But at least part of the problem is down to the driver in front not knowing when the lights will turn green - until that happens they'll continue to sit there, car in neutral, handbrake on. Giving those drivers an early warning of the change to green means they're more likely to be ready to move off on the green. Which is one reason why I'm in favour of the red+amber phase.

Another is that, when I see lights change directly from red to green, it always conjurs up images of racing starts - waiting at the red, waiting, waiting, waiting, GREEN LIGHT, floor the throttle!!! The more gradual transition from red to green via red+amber feels so much more relaxed and friendly

I can't say I've noticed an increase in red light running - not saying it's not happening, just I haven't noticed it.

If it is happening more, a cotributory factor may be that the phasing needs adjusting. If the green phase for a particular traffic direction is so short as to prevent a reasonable number of vehicles from crossing the junction, it's hardly surprising if some drivers react against it by running a red light.

I've heard it said that some traffic light phasing in London was changed for political reasons. If that's true, it's disgraceful. You reap what you sow.

I don't see why that needs to be the case. Even if the amber phase is fixed, it should be easy enough to extend the 'all red' phase as necessary to ensure that vehicles caught in 'no mans land' are able to clear the junction.

Hmm, but isn't it a bit strange to install lights on a stretch of road such that a driver behaving entirely within the law as they approach the lights could end up breaking the law by driving through a red light simply because they were unable to stop in time?

Then again, since it could be argued that drivers ought to slow down to a speed which would let them stop in time, perhaps the installation of lights on 60-70mph roads is a sneaky way to try and reduce the limit on that stretch of the road without having to go through the hassle of actually applying for a reduced limit... Stick a red light camera on the lights to catch anyone "stupid" enough to think that driving at 60 or 70 in a 60-70 limit is safe and legal, and you also reap some of the benefits of installing a speed camera without it being quite as obvious. Or is that being WAAAAAY too cynical

I was thinking from a road safety point of view rather than enforcement. Yes, you're right. If enforcement is carried out, it should allow a driver at the speed limit (say) 2 seconds in addition to the stopping time and the all red interval should be adjusted to allow for that.

I was aproaching a crossing the other day. it had a red light camera but no yellow box.

As I got nearer the traffic slowly ground to a halt. In the end there was a tail back of traffic over the junction when the lights turned red.

Then I saw the red light camera go off! Even though the traffic at the junction was grid-locked.

I know that you should not stop on a junction but what would happen with htis one? It could easily happen if for example a fire engine was trying to get through and traffic had stopped accross the lights to let it through

What are the rules for red light convictions?

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Speed camera policy Kills

Unless it's a new breed of red light camera I've not yet seen, then someone must have moved enough to trigger the sensors - the usual Gatso RLC uses buried loops just before and after the stop line, so if a vehicle is stationary in the junction with the lights on red the camera wouldn't do anything. See http://www.itctraffic.com/camera.htm




As with Gatso speed cameras, the RLCs take two photos to show the progress made by a vehicle through the lights (http://www.devon-cornwall.police.uk/dcsc/enfotech/redlight.htm) - given that the camera is armed by the tripping of the sensor before the stop line, it should be easy enough to prove which vehicle was responsible for setting off the camera and which vehicle was already stuck in the junction. Question is, would the camera partnership try sticking a prosecution on the driver of the latter vehicle...

The whole jumping lights thing is getting very worrying, it seems to be happening more & more I see it on a daily basis. I think it is only a matter of time before there are some serious accidents because of this and i,m surprised that there aren't major accidents allready. There are cetain roundabouts near me that have traffic lights at certain stages around them and you could go to any of these roundabouts at any time on any day and you will see people jumping red lights. Everyone seems to drive a bit too fast nowadays and it will end in tears, everyone seems to be in a hurry to get nowhere.

How does this work if there is stationary traffic at the lights (before and after the lights) the the car the on the junction creeps forward to clear the junction. Traffic across in the other direction is also grid locked.

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Speed camera policy Kills

Depends where exactly the moving car is in relation to the sensors. If it's already cleared them both, then any further forward motion through the junction can't be detected - the camera is set up to detect people driving through the red light, not the stretch of road controlled by that light...

All I know is that the camera flashed twice..

I woudn't like to be owner of the car in the picture.

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Speed camera policy Kills

I was driving yesterday on the East Lancs Road (A580) out of M/CR towards Leigh - I was doing about 50-55mph (in a 60 zone) and was approaching traffic lights on green - they changed to Amber when I was about 100ft away - it was quite wet and slippery, do I stop, do I carry on - I carried on and went over the line just as it went red. I'll probably get booked as I think there were traffic light cameras - although there was no flash(?)

Obviously my own fault - but I think it's a potentially dangerous situation, there seems to be a specific time, particularly on high-speed roads with traffic lights, that braking will result in an almighty skid and possiblity of someone rear-ending you, and carrying on will result in getting hit by the cameras...

What is the solution? Maybe have 40 limits say in the 300yds up to lights and then increase that limit after them? I'm sure many people have been caught out in the same way as I was.

Hmm.... have a video tape of three junctions ... shall send it to you after Xmas ..(Big deal in this family .... and this year they are all heading in my direction Guess who will be in the kitchen Still ... we all do some male bonding and prove that we are better cooks as well as better drivers! Normally we head off to Wildy's home town ... but the new baby and Wildy .... not really up to a long journey )

Anyways ... back to these traffic lights ... and perhaps Peter knows of them....

On way to Hope Hospital, Salford ... set of lights on a dual carriageway in Eccles. Lights changed to amber and were on a red signal before a narrow (one lane width) box junction had been cleared. No red light scam ... but accident is waiting to happen here.

East Lancs Road (A580) Astley (red light scam). Amber setting is less than one second. The same applies to the next set of lights in Liverpool direction.

The third one is on the A6 between Morecambe and Carnforth - no red light scam but certainly amber setting is less than one second.

So they are not all 3 seconds.

I will bet those were the ones at Astley. Red lights scam at Astley with a non-existent amber setting. The one at Worsley (A575 -- before the M60 J14 slip) and the one at Moorside as you exit J14 onto A580 have 3 second amber which is fine.

But those further along towards Liverpool are plain evil in settings...

However, I always approach traffic lights expecting them to change in any case. That is the nature of traffic lights... It is what they do and it Murphy's Law that they will change just as you approach them

Hmm, where abouts? Can't say I've noticed any particularly short ambers on that road, which I use semi-regularly. (Provided you mean the bit on the Carnforth side of the Morecambe junction.)

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-mike[F]
Caught in the rush of the crowd, lost in a wall of sound..

This happened to me a little while back (no ABS), wet road + the fatest sequance change in history (these timings are quite controversial in my area, a 2 second change) = skid, luckly a pump of the brakes stopped me in time, but what if someone just locked up, damn how unfair lol.