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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2007 14:08 
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Missed this little snippet which appeared in Friday's tabloids :roll:

I note that it has increased since Blunkett first mooted the idea when Home Secretary back in 2003 .. and idea was quietly dropped given the outrage at the time. :roll:



both Sexpress and Waily - this one is the Waily's version which reads the same as the Sexpress wrote:


Motorists fined by the courts will be forced to pay an extra £15 surcharge to compensate for "victims of crime"



Hmmm... if the driver was there for "dangerous or drunk driving" .. then perhaps there is a "victim of crime" .. but far too many are there as a result of blip tot-ups.. or have queried the fine - and in a now apparently increasing number of cases . even proving mistakes have been made with tempos and the Lti 20/20. :roll:


But more to the point .. these drivers do make a significant contribution to road accident "victims"... it's otherwise known as an increased insurance premium :roll:

Quote:

The schem will later be expanded to include drivers who are not taken to court but who choose to accept the fixed penalty notices for "breaking a speed limit


Ah... the cash drying up then.

We not speeding enough now .. so those who do get fined more :roll: :?


How about increasing the riding on pavements by the same margin. (It jolly well hurt when that rider pushed me down that trench. I went weak from the loss of blood and the pain - and whilst Wildy :neko: calls me a "right wus" .. couple of cm further up .. and it would have caused a very serious injury .. I might have bled to death! :shock: I want me £15 "victims' compo now .. :hissyfit: :roll: )

Quote:

Driving groups last night responded angrily to this scheme stating it was yet another attack on motorists

Edmund King of the RAC says:

"It does not seem fair that someone who has killed or murdered or robbed should pay the same surcharge as someone who - at 1 a.m. with nobody else around has gone 5 miles over a speed limit.


Indeed.


But the spokeman fo the "Victim Support" mob said (very predictably :roll:

Quote:

There is no such thing as a "victimless crime" We deal each year with hundreds who are bereaved as a result of road accidents



Um.... the MIB and insurance companies pay out the compo. It is why we are legally required to pay for insurance which also covers a substantial surcharge to the MIB to cover for those injured by the illegal who are uninsured and whose fine even with this £15 surcharge is still less than the average premium :bangehead:



I am sure my nursing staff and junior medics will never receive one penny for being attacked by aggressive patients and their families who seem to blame us for not being able to magic up an immediate cure or guarantee life eternal ... and the A&E lot fare far worse than in my area too. Medics are told it's "part of the job .. get on with it" basically. :roll: But if you like .. we should be first in line to receive cash from this fund .. as we are "victims" of crime.

But then .. those who get burgled, mugged and worse never seem to see any cash coming their way.. In fact . lucky if police even come to take prints from a burgled property... as "you can claim from your insurers, Sir" (Yep .. and pay out MORE cash for making a claim on it. :roll: )


:furious: :banghead:

Quote:

The surcharge scheme which comes into force next month across England and Wales covers not only driving offences, but any offence punishable by a court fine. It was originally intended that those guilty of violent offences would pay more

But court computers were unable to cope with the complexities of a sliding scale - so a flat rate of £15 will be levied


Off topic.. but if these computers' software cannot cope with something as simple as this - then how the hell are we supposed to be able to trust the congestion charging plans with less charged for off-peak .. and so on... :? :furious:

One thing laughs at the other here :banghead:

Quote:

The cash raised is initially expected to raist at least £16 MILLION in its first year .. and will be used for victim support and counselling



Ah,... so more jobs for the boys then... How many will be "counsellors" who may help (if the "victim" wants them to - and some do distrust the "interference" ) and how many will be "administrators" (the meaningless job for the otherwise unemployable? ) :scratchchin:

How many of these are actually qualified to "counsel". Some do far more harm than good. :roll:

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 18:13 
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I wonder what would happen if the offender send the 80 quid with a letter asking for the name and address of the victim of their crime, so that they can send the 15 quid directly to them.

Also this is a further deterent for challenging the ticket.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2007 00:32 
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Local paper - report that a high percentage of the £80 tickets for unruly etc behaviour have not been paid - perhaps those found D &D in town centres should be asked to cough uo an extra £15 to compensatre the townsfolk for tye problems caused ?? :roll:


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 14:40 
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www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-233 ... article.do
(Copy the entire text into browser)

This Is London wrote:
A magistrate is facing the sack after refusing to impose the controversial £15 victim's surcharge on a minor offender's court fine because it is 'morally wrong'.

The Government has ordered the charge must be imposed on any person who receives a court fine, including motorists caught speeding.

But it has attracted huge criticism because it does not apply to more serious criminals - such as rapists and murderers - who are punished with a jail sentence.

In the first known case of its kind, Ely magistrates refused to impose the charge on a teenager caught with a small amount of cannabis.

The senior magistrate, Alan Williams, said: 'Magistrates were not informed directly of the introduction of the surcharge.

"The court on this occasion is not going to impose the £15 surcharge. We do so in the full knowledge of the advice given. We know that the bench will be reported to the Clerk of the Justices.

"We feel the surcharge is morally wrong and may be in contravention of aspects of law. This is the decision of this bench alone - it is not the policy of the East Cambridgeshire bench."

Mr Williams added the bench would not impose the surcharge in any other relevant cases coming before them that day.

He is now facing possible disciplinary action. The Judicial Communications Office (JCO), which reports to the Lord Chief Justice, said there was a duty to impose the charge and that the chairman of the East Cambridgeshire bench had already asked Mr Williams for an explanation.

A spokesman added that Mr Williams could be removed as a magistrate, depending on the result of investigations.

The JCO said: "To refuse to obey or enforce any relevant law would be incompatible with holding judicial office.

"It would be a matter for the local advisory committee to consider whether to refer the magistrates to the Office for Judicial Complaints."

The Government has been threatening to impose the surcharge on offenders for more than three years.

But, when it was finally introduced earlier this month, there was surprise it will apply only to people fined by the courts.

Criminals given any other punishment will escape. It means crimes which have an obvious victim - such as rape - will not be subject to the £15 surcharge.

But a contested speeding ticket, where nobody has been hurt, will carry the penalty.

To add to the controversy, the initial money raised will go directly to victims but instead will be spent on appointing domestic violence experts.

Motoring groups said it was 'perverse' to make drivers fund a service which should be paid for by people who physically abuse their partner.

The surcharge will eventually be added to all on-the-spot fines - including tickets for speeding and using a mobile phone while driving.

In the hope of averting a backlash, motorists will be spared the first time they are trapped by a speed camera as long as they do not challenge the offence in court.

But if they pick up a second ticket, they will be ranked as a 'serious and persistent offender' and hit in the pocket.

Before Mr Williams's statement to the Ely court, Raymond Cole had pleaded guilty to possession of cannabis.

A police officer had found Cole parked in a layby with friends on the old A10 in Littleport and discovered a small quantity of cannabis when he searched the car, the court heard.

Cole, of Littleport, was ordered to pay a fine of £150, plus costs of £43.




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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 15:32 
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Quote:
In the hope of averting a backlash, motorists will be spared the first time they are trapped by a speed camera as long as they do not challenge the offence in court.


Compelling a guilty plea under threat of penalty.

Disgusting.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 15:59 
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But if they pick up a second ticket, they will be ranked as a 'serious and persistent offender' and hit in the pocket.


So 2 different cameras in one day and you automatically become a serial speeder.

As far as I'm concerned it is a tax. Correction, yet another :censored: tax.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 00:18 
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Wait, since when do the police and government compensate for victims of crime, we didn't get a penny when my GF was attacked by 3 criminals who in the process wrote off the car she was in (cost of windscreen plus 4 other pieces of glass > value of car).

All we got offered was to speak to victim support. We asked if they'd buy us a new windscreen but were told that they would not. Oh yes, we got charged for storage too, though admittedly only because we couldn't arrange for the car to be removed the very same day that the police had finished with it.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 00:34 
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Lum wrote:
Oh yes, we got charged for storage too, though admittedly only because we couldn't arrange for the car to be removed the very same day that the police had finished with it.


I have a very powerful urge to scream very loudly at somebody, right now. :(

Where did it all go so wrong? When I was a child, I never believed that the police could ever be my enemy.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 00:47 
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Zamzara wrote:
Lum wrote:
Oh yes, we got charged for storage too, though admittedly only because we couldn't arrange for the car to be removed the very same day that the police had finished with it.


I have a very powerful urge to scream very loudly at somebody, right now. :(

Where did it all go so wrong? When I was a child, I never believed that the police could ever be my enemy.



Well we were lucky, as it was criminal damage they paid for the initial recovery and the first nights storage charges, so we only paid £12/night on that car

The other car involved in the incident was treated as an attempted theft (short version, my car was mid-being-stolen, my GF comes home, stops them and is the victim of criminal damage and attempted murder) and was liable for the full set of charges, normally this is £112 but apparently mine needed "specialist recovery" as they could not get it out of park without a working ignition system (there is a specific button right next to the gearstick for overriding the interlocks), this was an additional £400


Anyway, I've gone and derailed the thread, sorry.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 20:13 
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The £15 surcharge doesn't only apply to motoring offences. It applies to ALL offenders punished by way of a fine.


To avoid any misunderstanding, I am not saying what my feelings are about this. Merely pointing out that motorists are not the only target.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 20:45 
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fisherman wrote:
The £15 surcharge doesn't only apply to motoring offences. It applies to ALL offenders punished by way of a fine.


so a murderer , rapist and motorist or a multi million pound armed robber are all equal, IMO it should go with the severity of the crime, but then most of the scroats only pay their fines by installments so the £15 levy is payable at 10p a week for nearly 3 years


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 12:10 
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fisherman wrote:
It applies to ALL offenders punished by way of a fine.


toonbarmy wrote:
so a murderer , rapist and motorist or a multi million pound armed robber are all equal


Not at all toon. If you were to murder or rape someone and even if you carried out a mulit-million pound armed robbery you would not have to pay the £15 fine as your punishment is not by way of a fine.

However, if you are a motorist who is caught speeding and contest it in court then you have to pay. I also assume that anyone that goes to court for non-payment of a fine and receives an additional fine would have to pay the £15 again.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 22:14 
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I see three magistrates resigned publicly in a letter to the Gruniard over this issue today.
They claim it takes away their discretion over a fair and just penalty, and instead makes them tax collectors.

The minister's response was (predictably) that the government held consultations with a wide range of groups including magistrates representatives, who agreed to the measures!

Fisherman - were YOU consulted, and would you be prepared to comment on your views of the court system collecting taxes? :roll:

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