Safe Speed Forums

Thanks. I've done just that. I started the message with "no doubt this will be censored". We shall see...

Background. The day after being stuck in gridlock after a serious accident on Anglesey caused by reckless overtaking across double lines (requiring an air ambulance) I was done for doing 35 in a 30 on a deserted road.

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Brian

Certainly nothing to do with speed cameras, if a traffic cop had spotted him 4 hours earlier they might well have prevented a death and a serious injury. How can they possible claim the camera policy reduces KSIs?

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Wake me up when the revolution starts
STOP the Toll Tax http://www.traveltax.org.uk

I think this is simply about 100 steps Too far, the clown has to go, and having listened to the rep from brake today on the radio, he ought to take them with him.
As for Paul, instead of ranting and raving like brake did, Paul, you made me proud to be aquainted with you, even if only over the net, rational, calm and ACCURATE.
The man HAS to go.

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Semper in excreta, nur quantitat variat.

Speeding was not the cause. Attitude was the cause. Attitude put all the elements in the correct place and in the right order to cause the accident. The speed of impact caused his death not the accident.

If your attitude driving is wrong you cause death, no matter what speed you drive at.

I feel dismayed at the fact that a Senior police officer did not explain the full facts, and showed such little respect for the mans family. In some ways I hope the family have not found this thread, as it would not make a pleasant read for them. No one deserves to die in such away, and the do not deserve to have the pictures of how they died paraded in such a distasteful manner.

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Oct 11 Birmingham Half Marathon. I am running for the British Heart Foundation.
http://www.justgiving.com/Rob-Taylor

They may not have found this thread, but the Guardian and the BBC currently suggest they are aware of the event.

Blunderstrom!

I think the only thing he is dismayed at is that the assembled journos didn't take his grizzly images at face value, but instead disseminated the information that was subsequently dissected, and he was caught out once again as a fraud!

Paul, thanks for the inspiration for 'Blunderstrom', I've been wracking my brain for ages for a suitable play on his name. I wonder if The Sun will give me a tenner for it

Not exactly - They are both 'PA copy' - text news issued by the Press Association. The Guardian web site carries it automatically. The BBC web site builds from it.

A PA journalist was present at the North Wales meeting.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Im not surprised he's done this, as time and again he demonstrates just how big an anus he really is.
Chief constable? I wouldnt employ him to flip burgers.
I hope he gets a visit from 3000 hairy bikers and tries to explain it to them, twat.

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"Safety" Scamera Partnerships;
Profitting from death and misery since 1993.

Believe nothing- Question everything.

Surely BLUNDERSTORM would be more appropriate.
.

But I thought he was trying to work out why he has more criminals copped and still has high crime rates

Crimes are increasing .. and I admit we are tied in red tape whilst these real criminals speed away.

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Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.

On the comment as to whehter or not that poor lad was aware of his death per the comment passed... I have spoken to Ted and the other medics in this family.

Marianna (who lives in Bruntromia) is a neurologist. She says that death would have been instantaneous - and the poor lad would have had no suffering or pain registering.

Another of those medics - Mad Doc's brother is a keen historian. He tells me in one conversation that there was an account of Mary Queen of Scots execution - whereby it was reported that her lips were quivering after the axe fell - as if she was trying to say something. He said there was a medical explanation - something to do with taking in a deep breath and it not reaching the lungs before the head became detached from the body.

Such things do not help the deceased's family nor even the family trapped in the car either. The only solace I can give them should they happen on this thread is that their loved one would not have felt any pain and probably did not even register any when he collided with this car for whatever reason.


Another piece of solace I will try to give them - should they hit on this site:

Whether or not he was unlicenced etc .. he still not deserve to die like that and it is another reason why my patch will go after the truly dangerous, obviously careless and downright inconsiderate as first priority.

Would we have been able to stop him on his course.. It is debatable ... but we would have tried to reign him in before he hit anything or any one - but without placing our officers in danger. We do give up a pursuit if it endangers ourselves and especially our members of the public. We will of course have the registration and seek to trace from DVLA records - and be on a general look out to collar on another occasion as invevitably - they will commit other traffic offences or repeat the high speed one on some other occasion

We have our own little speedy biker nightmare element on our own patch - and have mixed results of disaster for us in terms of a collision with a tree etc - and disaster for them when we collar them and chuck the proverbial book at them through the courts.

Do we use horror photos ... ?

We have been known to show some images designed to show up a potential outcome - but we have had permission to do so from ALL the parties concerned and we do do not ever comment on the character of the deceased at the time - even if he was not actually legally entitled to be using the road -

Nor would we publicly make some kind of self congratulatory or "told you so" type comment

Nor imply or give cause for some to take an implication or an offence or insult over the horrific death of a road user who was perhaps to blame for the incident - let alone make those trapped inside the vehicle with the headless corpse relive that trauma in a very public and sensationalised manner. I should imagine the post -traumatic stress to the occupants of that vehicle and that image will engraved on their memory forever and I fear that they also have been shown a callous disregard for their feelings in a quest to promote a speed policy which failed to prevent this person from riding - let alone speeding - to his death and causing trauma of epically proportions to a family which I cannot even begin to contemplate.


Again - my condolences to all concerned in this traumatic incident.


And to all (especailly young) bikers and drivers out there - true skill on the roads means driving to COAST principles - safely - prudently and within law abiding boundaries of a speed safe for the conditions. This speed is usually around the speed limit setting .. and blips can and should be tolertated within logical reason.

High speeds? Get extra training.. on TRACK DAYS! That is fun .. and keeps you and everyone thrilled and staying alive and alert for a lot longer!

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Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.

Bloody good point IG, I must admit I had given less thought to those exposed to the horrors in the car, but those poor folks, how awful it must have been for them!

You and I both get to see things that nobody should have to see, and I am sure you'll agree that you never really get used to it. Noone should needlessly be exposed to it by some buffoon trying to fraudulently justify his misguided policies.

The more I think on this the more angry I get that Blunderstrom will happily use these images in an attempt to falsely earn a pat on the back from the press, whilst completely oblivious, or at least negligent, to the people whose emotions he tramples rough-shod to do so.

Definitely a round-the-back-of-the-hangar job!

The dead bikers father has called for Brunstrom to be sacked...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/6604099.stm

Father wants chief to 'be sacked'

The father of a decapitated biker has called for a chief constable to be "sacked" for displaying pictures of his dead son without asking permission.

Images of Mark Gibney, 40, from Merseyside, were shown at a road safety briefing held by North Wales Police.

Chief constable Richard Brunstrom has been criticised for using the pictures, but claimed some sections of the media had presented a "distorted" view.

But William Gibney, 64, said Mr Brunstrom's actions were "appalling".

He added that he had tried his best to keep details of his son's horrific injuries from much of the family - but now everybody knew following publicity over the pictures.

Mark Gibney was killed when his bike crashed on a bend on the B5105 between Cerrigydrudion and Ruthin in 2003.

Pictures of Mr Gibney - including one showing his head in his helmet, eyes open - were shown to journalists and road safety experts during a briefing.

North Wales Police has admitted it did not seek permission from the family to use the images, but would not comment further.

William Gibney said he could "never forgive" Mr Brunstrom for using the pictures, adding: "He should be sacked.

"What he has done is totally outrageous and trying to blame journalists is nonsense.

"He's publicity-mad and what he has done to this family is appalling, and it won't have saved a single life.

"Our phones haven't stopped ringing. We just can't believe he could do this."

Mr Brunstrom has been criticised by MPs and his former deputy for using the images.

Harrowing

But, writing in his weblog, he said those attending the anti-speeding briefing on Thursday had been warned in writing they would be "briefly exposed to harrowing images".

The invitations to the media had said the images "were not, are not and will not be released into the public domain - a point emphasised verbally during the meeting," he wrote.

"They were included as a minor part of the presentation to counter the continuing tendency in some sections of our society to trivialise road death."

He said compassion was a "fundamental plank" of police plans and those involved cared "deeply" about reducing road deaths "precisely because we are daily called to face scenes such as those shown briefly, and in confidence, to this invited audience".

Mr Brunstrom accused a "small section" of the media of distorting the meeting "for their own purposes".

He said it was they who had "avoidably and unnecessarily added to the grief of relatives."

Bob Wareing, Labour MP for the West Derby area of Liverpool, said he was very concerned, and had contacted the Home Secretary John Reid about the matter.

"Completely unethical"

"The idea that a chief constable can display images of a dead person without first consulting the family is completely unethical," he told BBC Radio Five Live.

The motorcyclist was not named during Mr Brunstrom's presentation but details of his distinctive T-shirt, which bore an anti-police message, were given.

The T-shirt received widespread publicity during his inquest, and effectively identified him to journalists.

Martyn Jones, MP for Clwyd South, has called for Mr Brunstrom to consider his position, adding: "To use these images in this manner was a contentious decision in itself.

"To go ahead and use them in a public forum without the consent of Mr Gibney's family, was cruel and disrespectful as it has re-opened the family grief, in horrific detail."

A former North Wales deputy chief constable, Bill Brereton, said the decision to use the pictures was "ill-advised and ill-considered".

He added it showed "no respect whatsoever for the dead, nor for the grieving families".

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

I really do feel for that father and the rest of that family.

Yes - had this biker been riding dangerously in our patch and we yanked him off the road before any tragedy occurred - then he would perhaps have ended up in court and possibly in prison if the danger so warranted that. He may well have collided with something here and been a statistic on our patch - and quite possibly we may have asked the father if he wished his son's tragic story be used to help other young men learn from his "moment of tragic madness". The family has the right to refuse and the right to keep their grief and the right to preserve the dignity of their loved one - no matter if he was behaving unwisely at the time of death. I am mindful of the father's feelings and I do consider that Dick has widened the gulf and deepened the abyss between the police and our public over this.

I will be fair to Dick as he does hold a superior rank to me ..and I will be fair in that he wants to get a message across to bikers as to inherent dangers. But quite frankly - using an image like that without clearing this with the family and bringing unwarranted intrusion into their grief is not the way to win any battle over the minority of hot-heads out there.


He should have asked permission and he should have used the image without condemnation had the family agreed to its image being used. They are in shock.. grieving with a mix of sorrow and even anger at the biker's apparent stupidity as well - then will feel guitly at being angry.

I know this. I saw the Swiss reactions at first hand with Rudi, Ferdl and Wildy (who survived an ordeal - as we know and cringe at her use of English and her love affair with )

But yes .. that Swiss family went through all the emotions - ranging from sheer and white heat rage at whoever they thought was to blame to anger at the family member who caused them some distress .. and then feeling guilty and angry with themselves for blaming the family "victim".


The biker's family will feel very similar emotions and it really is unprofessional behaviour to use such images without the courtesy of obtaining permission to do so - even if such a severely shocking image could deter others to copy or educate not to emulate at all. Such a decision would be to the family - and maybe once they had come to terms with that sheer horror - they may well have wished for some positive good to attone for their child's folly. But that was THEIR decision Dick. NOT yours. NOT ours in Durham.. but THEIRS and theirs alone.

Your conduct over this is questionable - and I mean no disrespect Dick.

I will bet you lurk on this site. Or someone advising you lurks on this site. After all .. Paul Smith is your arch enemy. A "buffoon" in your world.

I do not agree with everything Paul says. I do agree with some of his points. I am open minded - despite being related to certain riff-raff of stubborn Swiss orgin

But you have made a very serious mistake here.. You have alienated the public even more. How on earth can we win any battle over speed when you indulge in this sort of thing Dick?

I know.. you will not answer on this site. I hope you reply on your blog though

No one here is a dangerous or careless driver. I accept that this site wiill attract the angry who feel unfairly pinged. I have hopefully appeased them .. soothed them.. smoothed over the hurt.. repaired the relationships as we do need our public to support us and continue to respect us, How the hell can we achieve this when you use images without having the decency to get the bereaved's permission and be perceived as riding roughshod over their grief? You have set back normal goodwill into mutual distrust Dick .. and it makes life a heck of a lot harder for our lads and lasses on the had North Mountain Face of enforcing road safety ethics and morality.

I post on this site to get COAST into psyche in reality. COAST is the basis of DIS and decent Speed Awareness course after all... and driving to this principle usually guaranteees the closest we can get to safe standards and overall compliance to the lolly in any case. I am sure you agree. You did appear to accept this once at a conference anyway.

For the record - Durham and North Yorks have a good overall safety record. However, N Yorks has the Dales and the Moors and we have Teesdale and Weardale. We have serious issues with incredibly daft bikers in those areas :yikes (These areas would be similar in landscapes and twisty roads to North Welsh hills and valleys) However, we do not ping blippers and as far as I am aware - we have not prosecuted someone overtaking a tractor - even if above the lolly letters. We target the really seriously stupid first and pick up the rest with the odd lecture. It seems to work fine overall.


But ... as I said in my earlier post - whatever the young chav/srote/scallywag /numpty is doing - they do not deserve to die that way nor should one appear to gloat or use the image in a manner which suggests the person was of a dubious character because of a choice of T-shirt. He may have been extremely safe in normal conditions - but for some reason - perhaps because riding unlicenced - been on a red misted adrenalin charged high. It does not excuse the behaviour and had he been copped alive - then I am sure the courts would have not been very lenient with him. But all the same .. he paid an ultimate price for his ephemeral buzz and quite frankly - it is not worth dying for.


I have driven at high speeds for a living for a good chunk of my life. I actually enjoy relaxing and driving at a speed at which I can appreciate the scenery more. For me .. it is a relief. I admit that I do enjoy competing with the Swiss hooligans on a track day session .. but this is a family thing - with the normal banter and good natures shown.

But I can understand why people will get a kick out of speed - and even when as a traffic officer on the patrolling long and hard shifts and was perhaps more involved than present in the routines (high ranks mean .. er .. paper .. lots of .. er paper .. pens.. signatures.. desk work .. errr .. boring stuff like that The only perk I get is having someone iron my trousers . )

But I was always aware of why my customers were "pushing the envelope" and was always polite, understanding - but at teh same time making it very plain why I was concerned enough to issue a penalty or why I decided to give an acid lecture. I think our lads and lasses out there adopt the same ethical style.

For the record Dick.. most appreciate you are trying to get across a message of caution. But tact and thoughtfulness do achieve more in the long run.
Your latest outburst has not helped any one Police Force get across a true safety message. Had you sought permission to use .. then you would have delivered a very significant message - one which would have had a serious impact and perhaps carried a heck of a lot more wieght. BUT YOU BLEW IT BIG TIME DICK! Ta ever so .. for setting back any attempt to get the public actually on board with us over real road safety values. My ex guv - Paul Garvin - deserves a "gong" long before you do!

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Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.

I have an interesting story to tell about pictures of RTA casualties on the Safe Speed in the News & Media forum.

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Anyone who tells you that nothing is impossible has never bathed in a saucer of water.

In Gear, as always, makes very valid (albeit very long ) points.

Officers like IG, who take the time to engage with those with concerns, do masses for the police/public relationship. I will relish any opportunity I get to drive within Co Durham, comfortable in the knowledge that I will not encounter uniformed civilians out to get me; and as such can proceed without staring at my speedo, preferring to scan the road ahead for hazards, and perhaps take in some of this 'scenery' I have heard so much about!

Blunderstrom has done nothing here but alienate the public, on several fronts. On the one, very well publicised front, he has offended friends and relatives of the deceased by his unauthorised abuse of the pictures of his demise. Furthermore, he has shown himself up, once again, to be a deceitful individual, quite happy to twist facts to his own agenda; namely touting these images as proof that speed kills and his policies are effective, when the cause of the man's death was not primarily his speed, and the chief cuntstable's (sic) policies had manifestly failed to save his life!

If we had the system here, as in the states, where high-ranking police officials are voted in then I would vote for In Gear as sheriff in an instant. I would never, ever have voted for the Blunderstorm!

Hey .. Wildy tells me I am her dearest "Liebchen" when compared to the poster she calls "lieber von" on PH.

But I was on a roll. There ar a lot of issues with that PR meet.


Our patch tries to do the right thing. We get things wrong sometimes. IN that we are no different from the other 43 Police Forces in the country.

But we try to do the right thing..

We think we do a reasonable job.. buit always room for improvement. We cannot ever afford complacency, That is a

_________________
Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/6602149.stm

Photo row 'distorted' says chief

A chief constable (Brunstrom) has accused some media of "distorting" a meeting where pictures of a decapitated biker were shown.

However an interview with former deputy police chief Bill Brereton has criticised North Wales Police for showing pictures of victims of road crashes. He said "It shows no respect for the dead nor the grieving family"

Link to interview
http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediaselector/chec ... =1&bbram=1

Yes "In Gear", Bluderstorm is a big Dick, who needs to be cut down to size.

Photo row 'distorted' huh?

Did he or did he not show pictures of a dead man without the assent of his family, to illustrate a point that was not backed by the circumstances of the man's demise?

Ah, thought so, not so distorted after all then huh?

I disagree IG. He was not making the salient points about this case. ie reckless driving can lead to tragedy.

Brunstrom was using the case to try and justify his strict policy on speeding - one which isn't working. So even if he had sought permission he would still have missed the target.