Safe Speed Forums

If i change the engine on a car and then advertise the car for sale am i obliged to notify swansea and the buyer ?
My reason for asking this is because me and the wife purchased a car from a crafty car company in leeds. mileage 50,000, last month. now a few weeks ago i noticed oil on the floor under our new car so after investigating the oil leak i took off the air filter box (punto mk2) only to see written in white paint, PUNTO MK 2 ,this was written on the rocker box cover, Now my first thought was its a replacement engine, So i called the crafty car company and they confirmed my suspision, they appologised and said yes the engine had been replaced by the previous owner and they will fix the oil leak. So am i buying a car with 50k on the clock or am i buying a car with a mileage unknown, now surely they should have informed me about the engine change

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nigel_bytes

sounds pretty dodgy, can you check the engine number it could be at worst case scenario from a stolen car

or you could get stopped by the police and could end up with some pretty hard questions to answer, get it it writing ASAP from the company that the engine was there at the time of sale,

what number is on the log book

the number on the log book is differant to the actual replacement engine number. i called the crafty car company and asked them why they hadnt notified swansea about the engine change. They advertise a 120 point vehicle check (so much for that).
So have they sold me a vehicle through deception in as far as the mileage says 50k but the real mileage is something completely differant and do they have a right to hold the information from me because they knew the engine had been replaced but did not inform me. ps i have informed trading standards waiting for a rely from them.
but i have to say im not very happy because i feel i have been deceived

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nigel_bytes

Ask them for the previous owner's details and see what reaction you get. Sounds dodgy to me.

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Useless laws weaken necessary laws.

Sounds very dodgy - you could try the address in the V5(Logbook) for the previous owner. But then with the so called sophisticated IT system at Swansea - it might be possible to trace the donor vehicle from the engine number, or perhaps FIAT can help

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

Swansea should easily be able to tell you what car the engine came from but not the mileage that the car had done when it came out so I'm not sure that would help. If the original engine was damaged in some way (e.g. cam belt failure), it might have been cheaper to buy an engine from a crash-damaged car and fit a complete engine - it's not that uncommon.

I believe you ARE legally obliged to tell Swansea of any changes that you make to the vehicle that affect any of the information that they have recorded (such as the engine number). Whether the garage did this or the previous owner did it (or another garage) is uncertain. I believe it is the registered keeper's duty to inform Swansea of any changes.

I'm no expert in consumer law but I would have thought that you DO have some comeback against the garage if they didn't spot this in their 120 point check - it seems pretty obvious.

any BIB have advice, on initial thought i would have said contact the local plod to get a report number logged, but then on hindsight if you just contact the DVLA the garage could say nothing to do with us at a later stage

I would demand a full refund under the sale of goods act the car is not as discribed.

i purchased the car for my wife in good faith, and i thought i would buy it from a reputable car dealer (carcrafty) i will call them for now.
you can imagine when i investigated a mere oil leak only to find under the air filter box 'punto 1.2', painted on the rocker cover i was sooooooo shocked i knew then it was a recon engine. and i checked the v5 (differant engine number)
i called them and complained and they said sorry but they admitted the previous owner had indeed changed the engine ( so why on earth couldnt they tell me that when we bought the car) i took the car to a garage and they confirmed the engine wasnt the original
So surely its upto the seller to tell the buyer about the engine, the car mileage wasnt exactly true because of the recon engine (mileage unknown)
indeed they do advertise on radio and tv about the 120 point checks they do, but why is it and im not a qualified mechanic, i spotted the obvious engine change
i have contacted trading standards ( awaiting callback)
And im convinced they sold me a car under false pretences and thet fact they knew about an engine change but kept that information from me.
im considering asking for a refund but i will wait for trading standards advice

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nigel_bytes

Yes someone was legally obliged to tell Swansea. Should have been the person who changed it and if they didn't and the garage that sold it to you knew they should have. If you're still using the car you might want to call your insurance. They can demand an engineers report if an engine is changed and might refuse cover if it comes to light later and you need to claim. They could also argue the toss over the value in the event of a total loss.

Lastly you may struggle to get an MOT if the garage doing the test input the engine number and the computer says no.

If it were me I'd simple return the car and demand a refund. Neither they nor you have any idea if that engine has been to Pluto and back - though it is a Fiat so it unlikely

Barkstar

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The difference between intelligence and stupidity is that intelligence has limits.

You mention "recon engine". How do you know it's not an old engine from a breakers yard? If it is it certainly wouldn't be a reconditioned engine, and you wouldn't know how many miles it had done previously, hence the oil leak.

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Useless laws weaken necessary laws.

This has got me thinking - why do we record the vehicle mileage when, as it appears from the comments above, it's the engine runtime we're more concerned about? Do we actually *need* to know how far a vehicle has travelled since leaving the factory, or would there be some benefit in replacing the odometer with a cumulative rev counter, say?

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Chris

If the car runs fine, apart from the 'to-be-cured' oil leak, and you and your wife are happy with it, then maybe just change the engine number in the V5 and keep it. This will be fine if it's not using oil, has no nasty rattles, has good oil pressure (i.e. the light goes out and stays out at tickover when hot - you could check this with a gauge) and a cylinder compression and leakage test come up OK.
Changing an engine is not necessarily a bad thing. IIRC, when an authorised dealer changed a block, crank and pistons they never changed the engine number. The old BMC used to supple 'Gold seal' engines and I once fitted one to a car, but I'm sure I didn't change the log book. What I did do was swop the engine number plate over to the new one.
However, if you don't like the car for other reasons, then here is an opportunity to get all your money back.
The dealer was not necessarily being devious here, as it was probably not something he thought important.
By the way, what is the car and how old is it?

As its a Mk 2 Punto the oil leak is probably from a rotten sump. Quick and easy to fix, but dont skimp on the mastic.

There is a section on the regisatraion document of you to notify the change of engine number. If the engine is stolen expect a visit. If the engine is from a written off car they might want to have a look at your car just to make sure you haven't put the wreck back on the road.

Its 52 plate (03) punto active sport the wife loved the look of the car.
The oil leak is the twin ignition module to rocker box o-ring, after further inspection i found 1 loose starter motor bolt very loose 1 engine mounting to cylinder head bolt loose (inner thread on head kaput) 1 rear boot strut kaput (boot wont stay open) Rear seat belt not working correctly (pull but wont return)
Im not a qualified MOT tester
but in my opinion i would not have passed this car
Not a happy chappy
still waiting for a callback from trading standards

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nigel_bytes

Nigel,

Personally I wouldn’t wait for trading standards. if you're not happy with the car after what you have found I’d take it back to where you bought it and ask for your money back. For a 03 car to want a new engine, and together with all the things you’ve found wrong, I’d definitively be thinking something isn’t right.

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Useless laws weaken necessary laws.

Out of curiosity -- how old is the MOT - these sort of places give car a multi point checkout and MOT at same time(usually) - if MOT is reasonably new with some of these faults - possibility that they could have existed at that time ---and if so extra power to you when you take it back.

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

When I put a (brand new) engine in my Puma, I notified the DVLA.

The only thing that would have failed the MOT on the points above is the seat belt, however you have no way of proving that it wasn't functioning correctly at the time of the test.

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What makes you think I'm drunk officer, have I got a fat bird with me?

My POV.
If it IS a stolen engine, then it would be better to get it swapped back to the garage before this comes to light officially, rather than have to fight them for compensation AFTER the event?

You really need to get it airtight that it IS the engine the crafty whatnames supplied you with before you do anything else, to ensure that you have a route to get your money back in ANY eventuality.

A local "reputable" garage in Kendal went to the wall a while back, and the owner was facing fraud charges when he died - of kidney and heart failure

Until the 5h1t hit the fan, you would have assumed they were reputable, so it just goes to show you cannot be too careful.
Check on the internet by googling the garage name, and see if there are any stories of concern - if there are, get your money back ASAP!

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Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!