Safe Speed Forums

Which is exactly what JPs told the government would happen.

My experience (which may not be typical) is that there are 3 main sorts of shoplifter.

Thrill seekers. Usually kids but sometimes well off, but bored, adults. They get caught once and don't do it agian.


Professional. They steal to order. You won't stop these folk. Even if they get a custodial sentence they are stealing again within a few days, or even hours, of getting out. Its a job to them, they view going to jail in the same way that most people see income tax. nasty but a normal part of life.

Addicts. They steal anything, anytime, anywhere if its not welded to the floor. They keep on stealing to feed their habit until they either manage to kick the habit or it kills them

I am so glad I can across this forum.

I received an NIP for a speeding offence in December. I had no knowledge of who was driving my car as I had left it parked at my parent’s house for the whole day. It was a shock to my to get the NIP as no one had my permission to drive my car.

I was involved in a car accident 3 days earlier; someone went in to the back of me and drove off. I was left with injuries and I could not drive my car properly or certainly for long distances. I drove my car to my parent’s house early Saturday morning and went last minute Christmas shopping with my wife and parents.

The NIP arrived a week later. I asked for the photo evidence to prove who the driver was, it did not show enough detail as the photo was of the rear of the car.

I then wrote to the police force and explained I was not the driver and I could not identify the driver and provided a list of people I know could have been at my parent’s house that day.

I received a letter back stating the matter was going to be passed to a magistrate’s court.

I wrote another letter explaining in as much detail as I could the reason I did not know the drivers identity and why I could not find out. I had confronted all of my family members and asked who was driving. No one has owned up.

I now have to go to court. I have asked for the video evidence in an attempt to find out who was driving. I want to know as much as the police!

I received the summons stating that I have withheld identifying the driver. My problem is I can not get points on my license as I hire cars on a regular basis for my own company use. Any points would render me unable to hire the vehicles and affect my earning ability, so I have to fight this.

Unfortunately I can not find a way to prove I was in another city on the day of the offence. I did not buy anything, it was more to cheer me up after having a bad accident.

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

I do I prove to a magistrate I performed due diligence in trying to identify the driver.

Thanks

Neil

You only need to show reasonable diligence, which is a lower standard than due diligence.

Basically you are expected to explore all possible avenues to find out who drove the car but not to do the impossible.
I can't give an exhaustive list as I don't know the individual circumstances but you should definitely have answers to these questions as a minimum

Who had access to the keys?
Who had permission to drive the car?
Have you asked who was at your parents house on the day?
Have you asked ALL of them what they know about it?
Are the people you were with at the time of the alleged offence all willing to give evidence on oath that you were with them at the relevant time?


There are some things the bench will be interested in. You say you were not fit to drive but seem to have driven to your parents house. Fit enough to go shopping and (presumably) walk around a shopping centre but not fit to drive.

Bear in mind that you are (in effect) accusing someone in your family of TWOC and if the person is eventually identified (perhaps by means of the photos) you may be asked to give evidence against them.

It's not that I was unfit to drive completely. I sustained bad whiplash and iinjuries to my left arm. I still am having problems with my injuries today.

After 30 mins or so of driving my left arm would be acking and I could not reasonable drive any more than 30 mins or so.

The car was captured on photo some 30 miles north of my parents house, in a direction I have no need to go, I have no friends or relatives in that direction. It would have took approx 50-60 mins from my parents house to get to the point where the speeding offence occured. I was unable to drive to work the following few days and I had to use public transport. After 3 days I could manage a short drive.

My main problem is although I have asked all my direct family members who was there that day, my parents house can be a busy hub for many of my indirect relatives and therefore is very difficult to pinpoint everyone who might of been there. I have tracked down everyone I think or know may of been there.

I know this sounds like a weak excuse, but thats the truth. It appears I have to prove my innoence in court. I always thought the UK legal system was guilty until proven innocent, I can not see how the CPS can prove I knew who was driving.

Thanks

Neil

Did you go to a high street with CCTV or a shopping centre? You almost certainly went in shops that have it. I'm sure under the Data Protection Act you can legally demand any footage of you (anyone confirm?). So write to them all and ask for it, giving the dates and approx time you were there. The shops will probably have recorded over it but maybe not a shopping centre or high street. Even if no one can produce a tape, copies of your requests and the replies will add weight to your arguement that you couldn't have know who drove the car and have done all you can to prove it.

Barkstar

_________________
The difference between intelligence and stupidity is that intelligence has limits.

There are lots of gaps in your account, which you have to be able to fill - and fill convincingly - in order to presuade a bench that you have used 'reasonable diligence'. Fisherman has pointed out some of them. Yours is an interesting and quite unusual case. If you want more help, from people who have been round the block a few times, you should try posting on the PePiPoo forum. Fisherman has a low opinion (which I share) of some of the advice on the main site, but there's a number of regular posters on the form whose knowledge of motoring law is quite extensive and will give sound advice. You will probably attract some interest because (as I said) you case is quite unusual. If you play it right, you will get case specific legal advice without paying a lot of money to a lawyer (and it's easy to pay a lot of money for poor advice because many, many solicitors don't have much knowledge of motoring law). Even if you just spend a few hours reading up on other cases, you will learn a lot about the law and legal process.

Not true.
You have to show, on the balance of probabilities, that you don't know who was driving and could not, with reasonable diligence, find out.




Your case will arouse interest for two reasons.

You are, in effect, alleging a crime by one of your family. That of TWOC.

Very similar stories have been used before and resulted in custodial
sentences for attempting to pervert the course of justice.

The problem is that you can't tell which is right and which is wrong. All are presented with the same level of certainty.

I am usually unable to give case specific advice because I don't know all the facts. In any asking for advice situation you only ever get one side of the story.
It surprises me that people who, as far as I am aware, lack any training or experience as JPs or lawyers, do feel able to give case specific instructions to posters.