Safe Speed Forums

I'm grateful to Mark for the list and taking just one incident at random - that of serious damage to property, I'm doubtful whether this could justify risking life and limb by travelling on town roads (as they do regularly past my house) at truly suicidal speeds.

As for the rest of the list, there are many reported occasions when police fail to even bother to attend some reported incidents but I suppose it depends on the circumstances on the day.

I also appreciate it's a case of being damned if they do and damned if they don't but the bottom line is that innocent lives are still being taken by police speeding, perhaps for something as trivial as attending a reported car theft.

SM

DeltaF..
OK then, lets talk about safe driving and not advocate breaking the limit because you don't see a need for it huh?

Y'know, everyone's idea of "Safe" is different.
The speed that you or I may consider safe, another may consider foolhardy or even dangerous....it all depends on your perception of the word and your competence behind the wheel.

At this time we have roads signs advising us of speed limits, the posted speed limits are legally enforceable...like it or not they are, and until that changes anyone can choose not to obey them.
No one is saying you MUST travel at this speed or that speed...but if you do and your idea of safe happens not to be so, who is at fault?
The limit for being too low or yours for overestimating the safe speed level?

Speed limits are designed so that the driver doesn't have to decide what he considers safe. A posted speed limit TELLS you what is believed to be safe and socially acceptable for that area.
Personally I don't always abide by posted limits either. I recognise that I may be breaking the law by doing so and if caught I will most likely be punished for it.
Doesn't mean just because I thought it was safe I was right to break the law nor does it mean what I did was socially acceptable.
If I ever get caught then that is my fault for not being alert (safe?) enough to spot the speed camera or the police patrol. It is not the fault of any speed limit or speed camera or ACPO or anyone else...the fault is mine alone I made the choice to disobey the warnings.

This is the key point in the above post.

The first sentence is definitely wrong as it is possible to be travelling at an unsafe speed but within the limit. Thus drivers must always set their own safe speed.

The introduction of the concept of "socially acceptable" into road safety is the cause of most of the inappropriately low limits we see today. How do you decide what is acceptable? Is one person complaining (with no supporting facts) about "speeding" enough to introduce a social speed limit? This is subjective whereas the setting of limits by the 85th percentile rule is objective - and sensible.

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

Sorry to be so blunt but this is may actually be the worst statement I have ever read regarding road safety.

Do you advocate that drivers can always travel at exactly the speed limit regardless of conditions, hazards or road type?

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

No lives are being taken by 'Police speeding'. Where lives are being lost in 'Police-at-fault' crashes it's extremely likely that the Police officer was...

- guilty of a far more serious driving offence than speeding (and/or)
- not driving in accordance with his training (and/or)
- not adequately trained

Speeding isn't even on the radar.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Ang on Paul. Did you just say that it's posible for a person to go at breakneck speeds in a built up area in perfect safety just because they wear a uniform and have the training?

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

Of course not. But I am saying that no well trained driver chooses a speed which is dangerous if he's driving in accordance with his training.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

As in, the better trained they are, the less likely they are to use inapproriate speed...

All drivers - Police or not - should always use an appropriate speed...

IMHO

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Pecunia Prius Equitas et Salus

I still think the speed at which they fly past my house is something which no amount of training would help. Come and sleep in my bed for a month and wait for PC Schumacher to go by. I think you'll agree he's choosing a speed which is extremely dangerous!

I won't stay in the same bed of course

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

Yes, but even more than that. Inappropriate speed is a violation of the training. Speeds that are 'significantly inappropriate' more-or-less vanish with sufficient training (except in the case of the odd nutter who 'does it anyway').

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

If you're right, then the training is insufficient (or you have the odd nutter who didn't get weeded out).

I know training standards have declined, but it's very hard to quantify.



Ah, yes, inappropriate. Good word, inappropriate.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Hmmm… Sorry to labour the point but if I understand correctly someone with good training can, or should be able to, exceed the limit safely and legally then?

If police can go at 60+ mph over the limit then perhaps all advanced drivers should be able to go at, let's say, 10 mph more than the posted limits?

I'm not deliberately being obtuse, honest. I'm intrigued as to what right one person has to speed so excessively and in my view, dangerously. It still sounds to me as though some can have, by virtue of their job, A Licence To Speed.

I often see a PC in an unmarked grey Vauxhall in my area speeding with impunity. I'm not saying they shouldn't be able to; I agree with what someone said earlier I think which was along the lines of it very much depends on what the emergency is.

If it's to capture a terrorist or drugs baron then the risk of not catching them may outweigh the risk of police cars driving at 100 mph past my house because if they let them get away then who knows how many lives will be lost further down the road. (no pun intended)

In any other case, however, it would in effect be putting money before human life wouldn't it?

I understand you can't always know until you get there so I do sympathise with the police by the way.

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

As training and experience increase so the speed limit has less and less to offer.

IMO the speed limit has little to offer for the vast majority of experienced and responsible drivers.

Speed limit + 100mph, may on occasion be far safer than 5 mph on another occasion.

But speed limits are still useful to road safety because:

- they provide an indication of conditions expected ahead
- they guide the inexperienced and the incompetents away from wild excesses
- they provide an easy-to-use tool for the police to deal with irresponsible driving

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Unfortunately its not so straightforward because thats exactly what everyone who breaks a speed limit law is actually doing, but that only applies to those driving in an otherwise safe manner. It dosent include ye olde nutcases.



Of course it is, flying looks extremely dangerous to me, but its not.



I agree, but surely better training would help to prevent some of the more incompetent from judging whats safe and what is not?
Doris from number 37 thinks anything over 25 at any time is dangerous....



Thats true, and most people tend to do just that; Ingore them, including those that support the laws on speeding, like Mr Ladyman, and CC Med Hughes for example.



Ahh but they are telling us to travel at a particular speed! Theyre telling us its DANGEROUS to go in excess of what the sign says when patently thats not true.




Thatd depend on circumstances surely? Itd be an unwise driver who decided to do 70 in 50 foot fog visibilty dont you think?




So the inference of the above statement is to drive to what the sign says and is "believed" safe? No discretion allowed? Like a robot you mean?
And then no accidents will ever happen?
Im sorry but thats not realistic. Its unreasonable to expect drivers to perform in that way, as theyre not robots and especially for something as flawed as a "belief"!
Whatever happened to scientific evaluation and testing to prove a theory?
Seems now all we have to do is form a "belief" and thats good enough.
I believe the moon is made of cheese....but is it really?

The point is that "belief" is like "faith" and has no place in the setting of policy or speed limits.



I wont damn you for doing what the rest of sane and reasonable drivers do, but id like to ask if you feel that its fair and just and moral to persecute someone for doing something thats harmed no one else?
Obviously you dont as you break speed limits yourself. Good for you i say!


Who else better than yourself to judge how safe or otherwise at the time and location and conditions what speed is safe to travel at?
No one except you is! Thats why speed signs are pointless, thats why speed limits and speedometers are unecessary; theyre not needed to drive at a safe speed, theyre only needed to drive within a pointless draconian unfair and unjust law!



Id not punt off particular blame onto you for getting caught, its just so easy to get done for something thats so pointless and uneeded, in other words speeding law.
Its not meant to create safe driving conditions or safety for bystanders, its been made for easy prosecution of a technical offence.

On a slightly different slant i had a thought today ( unusual i know) but if we had no criminals, would we still need a police force?
Just the same as if we had no speeders would we still need speed cameras and speed cops?
Whatd be the point of em otherwise?

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"Safety" Scamera Partnerships;
Profitting from death and misery since 1993.

Believe nothing- Question everything.

Whilst I fully appreciate the fact that police drivers have to receive the highest standard of training, there remain the problems of awareness and anticipation of the public at large.

I'll explain: On any given road and with traffic flowing at reasonable rates, the time interval between spotting a moving vehicle and that vehicle arriving at the spot on which you stand will be locked into one's conciousness. The habit formed will involve making a notional assessment of the risk of moving into said vehicles path before moving out. Now, should a vehicle be travelling at twice the speed *usually* encountered on the road (as some police cars are prone to do), I suggest the risk assessment goes awry and an accident occurs - SMIDSY all over the shop.

In a supposedly enlightened society, mixing pedestrians and moving traffic is lunacy at best but when a rapidly moving vehicle appears from nowhere, tragedy can be the sad consequence.

That's whydrivers of emergency vehicles activate their strobes and sirens when on a call. Such devices are meant to warn all road users that the driver and other drivers are going to do something unusual and unexpected.

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

Part of setting a safe speed is allowing for other road users who may not be expecting vehicles travelling at more than the usual speed for the road. Sirens/lights as smeggy says above help to modify the safe speed upwards.

For instance: On a roundabout which I know I can drive around at say 30, well within my and the cars abilities, but most people seem to negotiate at 20-25 I allow for the fact that other drivers are likely to misjudge my speed and pull out on me. So I slow down.

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Driving fast is for a particular time and place, I can do it I just only do it occasionally because I am a gentleman.
- James May

only if you're an idiot. The rest of us, hopefully, will look at the vehicle and judge its approach speed.

I don't think most drivers let alone pedestrians are very good at judging speed or more importantly time to intersection. The other conclusion I've made is that they can but the criteria used is 'can the vehicle stop before it hits me' rather than 'if I step/drive out will it have to brake'.

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Driving fast is for a particular time and place, I can do it I just only do it occasionally because I am a gentleman.
- James May

Drivers (like us) are expected to be able to correctly and reliably judge another/multiple vehicles ETA given they could be approaching at between 0-70mph. Not all pedestrians are expected to be able to do that.

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign