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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 09:50 
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http://www.thisishampshire.net/news/dai ... chools.php

20mph limit outside Hampshire schools
Quote:
SPEED limits of 20mph are to be brought in at 570 schools in Hampshire, the Daily Echo can reveal.

Transport bosses plan to have voluntary speed limit signs on roads outside all schools controlled by Hampshire County Council by this autumn.

And in Southampton, where roads chiefs have already put in place similar restrictions outside 11 of the city's schools they are investigating whether to expand this to all of their schools.

The move by bosses at the county council comes just days after Portsmouth became the first local authority in the UK to impose a 20mph limit policy to curb accidents involving pedestrians and cars in urban areas.

Neither Hampshire nor Southampton are considering similar blanket moves but both want to cut the speed of traffic around schools.

County council environment spokesman Councillor Mel Kendal said: "Reducing traffic speeds outside schools is important.

advertisement"We are looking at bringing in 20mph voluntary limits outside all Hampshire's schools by putting up signs. They will carry the slogan Twenty is Plenty'."

He added that already most motorists slow down as they are passing schools, and that would help to reinforce the message.

Councillor Gavin Dick, the transport guru at Southampton City Council, said: "We are keen on introducing 20mph limits outside schools and in other areas if it would improve safety and people want it , then we would consider it too.

HAMPSHIRE: Parents welcome crackdown on traffic speed
Cllr Mel Kendal

"We're looking to really improve traffic control around schools, but it is a case of identifying where the risk is greatest. This process has started already."

So far 13 per cent of schools in Southampton, including Ludlow Junior, Kanes Hill Primary and St George's, have 20mph limits in place.

Nine of these limits, which are mandatory rather than voluntary, were put in place by the city council and the two others by developers under PFI schemes. On average the city council says it hopes to put in place two more each year.

Parents and road safety organisations have welcomed the crackdown on speed outside schools.

The charity Brake says that the limits are exactly what it has been campaigning for, and although it wants other councils following Portsmouth's example, would welcome 20mph zones being introduced anywhere.

Mother-of-two and councillor Jenny Head said that her local authority had proposed a similar move for the borough's schools to the county council four years ago, so new limits would be a positive step.

She said: "As a mother, I would be very supportive.

"In Bishopstoke especially I see children walking to school on their own and at the moment, with cars racing along, it's an accident waiting to happen. It's very nice the county council is taking this on board."

3:00pm Wednesday 6th June 2007

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Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 09:54 
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In my mind it makes a mockary of the speed limit signs and the law

The Highway Department have a responsibillity to erect and maintain a clear system of road signs.

Quote:
PRESCRIBED MARKINGS AND ROAD STUDS
2.1 All road markings placed on a highway or road
to which the public have access must be either
prescribed by Regulations or authorised by the
Secretary of State for Transport (for installations in
England) or the Department for Regional
Development (Northern Ireland), the Scottish
Executive or the Welsh Assembly Government as
appropriate.

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Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 10:41 
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We have these on the island. I posted about it before.

One of them is in a place where 20mph is a reasonable speed for about 100 yards, but mad for the other 300 for which it continues. At the one in Wippingham it is just madness, driving below 40 makes you look like a drunk driver or kerb crawler most of the time.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 10:49 
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I think it's a good idea.

a) It's not mandatory
b) It may help reinforce the message that "yes, you're going past a school - kids could be present, slow down"


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 11:12 
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I'm not even sure they're any good at that. Because of the appalling placement, the ones here are already completely ignored as far as I can see. They've been relegated to beneath the status of SLOW written on the road, probably for the same reasons: misuse and overuse.

Edited to add: the definition of 'near' or 'past' a school are incredibly liberal. It's probably something like within a mile.


Last edited by Zamzara on Thu Jun 07, 2007 12:00, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 11:37 
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It would be interesting to see if such a zone is enforced during times which are obviously out of school hours.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 12:15 
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The 20 should not be in a round red circle... that is a "must obay " sign

I would support it if there was different sign.

I have followed a car at 40 who slammed the anchors on to 20 at seeing one of these signs out side shool hours.

The highways authority should not be placing illegal signs that do not reflect the legal speed limit.

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Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 16:59 
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If it gets kids to walk to school rather than be driven then I am all for it as 20mph would be about 15mph faster than I get to drive due to the school runners anyway.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 17:01 
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I think its a good idea as long as it is not a prerequisite to a perminent speed limit.

secondly I think there are plenty of roads that may benefit from higher legal limits and lower advisory limits.

personnally I can't see why they don't use the black MAX SPEED 20MPH signs, rather than design something knew


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 21:13 
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Limits which are inforce 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year for a hazard which exists for less than 5% of the time and is non-existant during weekdays and holidays, are in my view a very poor idea. It does nothing but cry wolf, and damage respect for existing speed limits. This could lead to an indirect increase in speed; quite the opposite to the desired effect. As such they are all routinely ignored near me by almost everyone.

I would welcome a mandatory speed limit near any school that was timed or operated by the school, if it was justified and not just there arbitrarily. The technology would be extremely simple and of little extra cost. But I forget, we are not in a country of sensible speed limit setting.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 21:58 
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Many, many schools have flashing yellow lights at school start and end times. Surely a mandatory 20 mph could be applied whilst these are switched on.

I remember here in my village trying to get my 5-year old daughter across the road with another child to go to school. There were no lights or crossing warden and the road is busy at this time and lots of parents trying to cross with their children. A cretin in an Audi rushed towards us, well over the 30 mph limt, and we had tro run out of the way, even though we were half-way across, (AND THERE BEFORE HIM !!). I shook my fist at him whereupon he stopped, got out of the car, and started shouting and waving at us. I thought to myself, 'if you're like this now, at ten to nine, I'd hate to be your missus when you get back from work'.

Where do these people come from. I had two young CHILDREN with me, for God's sake.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 22:34 
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mpaton2004 wrote:
I think it's a good idea.

a) It's not mandatory
b) It may help reinforce the message that "yes, you're going past a school - kids could be present, slow down"

No school kids about near schools;

while kids are in school,

during the evening and night,

dring weekends and,

during school holidays,

when these 20mph limits will still be enforced.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 08:20 
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In the old days, a "school" sign and a pair of flashiong amber lights would have sufficed to get people to slow down ahead of a school.

Now, the authorities believe that speed limit signs (with a camera sign underneath) are the only signs that drivers take notice of. This is a sad (and dangerous) side-effect of the camera era.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 09:00 
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mpaton2004 wrote:
I think it's a good idea.

a) It's not mandatory
b) It may help reinforce the message that "yes, you're going past a school - kids could be present, slow down"


And there's me thinking there were specific signs, lights and roadmarkings for that purpose. :roll:


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2007 20:46 
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mpaton2004 wrote:
I think it's a good idea.

a) It's not mandatory
b) It may help reinforce the message that "yes, you're going past a school - kids could be present, slow down"

I don't often praise Derbyshire, but in this case they have a good solution. They have signs saying "20 when lights flash" - which they do at appropriate times. What's the point of doing 20 past a School on Sunday evening?

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