Safe Speed Forums

If they survived their childhood and youth (Which admittadly a significant number diddnt BUT a large number did!) they lived as long as we do today!

(Dont confuse "median" with "mean"!)

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"The road to a police state is paved with public safety legislation"

Actually, I did not mention voting in my list of things one should be able to do if one can be called up to fight a war for one's country, but clearly I should have.

And are the Romans really the best example.

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Good manners maketh a good motorist

try http://www.staffordshirefire.gov.uk/med ... TA%20-.pdf

Old drivers have fewer accidents, but their mileage is much lower. Jo Brand hosted a show on the risks of older drivers "Driving me crazy 19-may itv1) and this was the first time I'd seen anyone suggest that older drivers where high risk.

I think Brand claimed 3 times higher than under 25s

Low mileage equals low exposure but high accident rate per mile traveled. however, most groups accident per mile goes up as the miles go down.

e.g. motorcyclist risk is lowest at 6-8k per year, but the same demographic has a much higher risk in the under 3k group. So it would be unfair for me to simply say its cos they are old, it may just be the low mileage

This raises an interesting point. Is it that low mileage drivers are "out of practice" and thus are more accident prone? Do you need a certain minimum mileage to keep your skills up?

People say you never forget how to ride a bike. The only thing is you are a menace when you do get back on after many years.

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

Been thinking! .......

NO! now stop all that....order at the back there!

I wonder what the difference in attitude is between a child who has been taught when young too drive, and the responsibilities that go with it. Verses the situation that we have at the moment when we need to be 17yrs old before we even touch a car?

Is a young Lewis Hamilton safer than a 17yr old chav who drives for the first time as a teenager?........ and IF it is, shouldn't we be teaching our kids to drive at a younger age in order to get the impetuosity of youth out of their system before that age? Or (given the state of our society) would it all lead to more so called: "Joy riding" by ever younger youths?

I'm not sure either way..

From my bikesafe involvement, there is one common theme among low mileage riders. They don't see the consequences of high risk riding. 9/10 they get away with the poorly planned overtake, or going to fast round the bend or overtaking on a junction. Higher mileage riders are more laid back because they know one day they'll come a cropper.

Then there is the simple concept of machine control and muscle memory. Riding a motorbike is very technical compared to driving a car. It really does require regular practice.

I suspect some of that translates to inexperience young drivers and older less agile drivers.

According to a front-page report in today's Times, the government are planning to raise the minimum age for holding a full driving licence to 18, and to introduce a zero alcohol limit for all drivers in the first year of holding a licence.

It is claimed this could save up to 1,000 lives a year - frankly I would be surprised if it led to anything more than the level of reduction you'd expect from taking one year's age cohort out of the driving population.

It will also encourage more young people to ride mopeds, and more to drive without a licence. Typical half-baked knee-jerk politics

Oddly, while the report was on the front page of the print edition this morning, it has now been buried on the website and isn't anywhere on the main UK news page. Maybe it was just kite-flying

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

The bottomline is that we give our kids no road sense till suddenly 17 we thrust an unlimited (if they could afford it) motor vehicle upon them.

This happens no where else in transport.

HGV - various stages and limits.
Motorbikes - various limits to ages/capacity.
Aeroplanes - retested when changing type of aircraft.

My driving tutoring started when I was old enough to see over the back of my father driving seat. In the days where we had no back seatbelts. Not that we need to go back to that. But on most journeys I would watch and learn from my "policeman" father - who imparted more than he could ever know in the way I conduct myself on the road.

I'm not saying that would work for everyone - however the main thing is we need to get kids more aware of the risks and percieved dangers - that they find themselves dropped into once they pass their test.

We need to show kids the mess they can cause - we need to show them the truth. I still remember Grampian police leaving the latest "fatal" crash car at the top of the road to Blackburn (A96) north of Aberdeen. The view of these twisted hulks of metal still ring true in my mind.

We also need to ensure that all kids are aware of how to deal with their cars before they get on the road. Recently I asked a neighbours son what he checked before setting off - "oh I always make sure I've got my mobile phone" came the reply.

Even my wife would never regularly check her Tyres before setting off. They just work dont they...

Most kids putting 3 or 4 friends in a small car dont even reset the tyre pressures - therefore increasing the movement and possible failure of a tyre by a huge amount.

So you see the problem isnt quite as it seems.

There are "ethnic" groups that have a higher "accident" rate - however we'd never think of ensuring that these groups have draconian measures in place.

So why should we let this be done to our kids.

I see this story. I could perhaps scan it.

It bring in line with EU. It nothing to do with "safety" in essence; More "harmonisation" But they can "sell" idea on back of "positive spin machine" as they know UK hate what them foreigners impose on us in UK.

Three year probation will follow - like France und Germany und now Austria

I learn to drive whilst aged 17 year. I was allowed to sit test at age 18.

My Papa was loving - but strict with all of us. My many Onkel strict with my many cousins too.

We had to earn the privilege of parental assistance in expense of learning to drive car. We had to prove to them we were responsible people in all aspect of character building - from basic manners to knowing how to behave as pedestrian und cyclist.

Papa und Onkel also said that



So.. I had to prove to my Papa that I understood how a car work

He teach me how to change tyres.. check oil,.. drain sump.. change oil.. tune a car.. change a wheel..its electrics

He then set me various tasks. I had to show him I knew how to ride a bicycle without causing any driver to flinch or go pale

He quiz me - und also Krissi (my big sister) und our two brothers - relentlessly on Highway Code/.Traffic Law/ COAST type values.

He then set us each in our turn a task to prove we "au fait" with First Aid und car mechanics. We each had to strip down, fully service, put back together a car in which he plan to take on rally or track race.

He was most unkind as he set a time scale of what he called "normal service time follow by normal pit stop time"

As result? I know how cars work.. understand their powers/fails/mood swings even

He then pay for proper tuition/fund our cars as students but also disciplined us when we succumbed to genetic tendency to feline sets of wheels He most cruel as he cut allowances to make us pay fullest price in debts to cover those wheels

But he also teach "value of money" "purchasing power" "living within means" "earning our privileges" as a result.



Perhaps that where we go wrong? We not teaching the reality shocks of life as too much padding of shock absorbers

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Nicht ganz im Lot!
Ich setze mich immer wieder in die Nesseln! Der Mad Doc ist mein Mann! Und ich benutzte seinen PC!

UND OUR SMILEYS? Smile ... und the the world smiles with you.
Smiley guy seen when you read
Fine me for Safe Speed
(& other good causes..)

Greatest love & Greatest Achievements Require Greatest Risk
But if you lose the driving plan - don't lose the COAST lesson.
Me?
Je ne regrette rien!

To be honest, the only thing that "I" can see; is a 12 month older more inexperienced new driver having the same crashes because he can now DRINK legally as well!........

I'm worried, ......... I'm worried that the old "fuddy duddy" (and those that know will know that I'm one) mentality...... is showing through here.

OR is it more sinister? Could it be that the EU wants to limit the number of new drivers on EU roads to limit congestion thereby limiting the need for NEW ROADS? ........ or imported FUEL USAGE, or future ROAD SPENDING?

Forgive me...... cynical moi

I forsee the increased use of mopeds from 16-18. That will increase the number of kids hooked on bikes and an increase in road deaths.

does any one have the historical death data for motorbikes back to when 17 year olds could ride 250cc bikes (1979?)

What happened then was all the lads in the villiage wanted a moped and the parents resisted wanting them to wait untill they could learn to drive a car. So for two years they will NEED a moped to get to college, work etc.

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Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code

No such thing is ‘thrust’ upon them. Also, do you reckon the newly passed can jump onto a Suzuki GSX-R1000?
However, you are right about kids nowadays having no road sense – the lack of Green Cross Code type initiatives is a key factor here.


I wholeheartedly agree with this, but why limit such a campaign to only the young?


Are you telling me that some kids do? I would be surprised if some from any age group does.


I’m not so sure, it’s probably the other way around; these resulting from a lack of co-operation between the countries. I’m under the impression that Polish drivers (driving Polish registered cars) can’t get NIPped.

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

I'm against rasing the driving age 17 is fine.

We need to look at our teaching and testing but.......

.......young people are young people and nothing will change that.

Some of our cabinet ministers apparently did things in their youth that they now regret.

More 'Green Cross Code from the earliest age, more cycle proficiency, more 'road sense' pre 17.

A more rigorous practical test (scrap the pointless multi choice touch screen one) limited licence....maybe embargo on passengers <25? then a re test prior to gaining a full licence.

I'm not sure what else.

Perhaps before people can drive on the road there should be a compulsory basic training off the road. When I was 16 I did something like that in my school car park and I consider it to have been very useful. It was basically driving round in first gear, but it taught us the patience necessary to stay at low speed in situations where it's required, which is what boy racers seem to lack.

Smeggy - I mentioned we dont allow kids onto big bikes like that in my post...

In my humble opinion - the limit should be town cars for non motorways "certified" drivers. And something along the lines of a "ford" focus level for those certified for motorways with "advanced" option taken.

In terms of the stats - then if people arent going to take into account the "state" of the tyres in an accident - then perhaps we are chasing the wrong reason for the accidents.

If someone has a full car - under inflated tyres - and perhaps speed that is getting close to the limit of their skills - then it only needs a nipped tyre, blowout or a collapse on the side wall on a overheated tyre - to cause an accident.

I can speak from experience where I didnt check the tyres before heading off on a journey when I was younger - and on the first major high speed corner - I experience a "wiggle" of the back tyres telling me they were softer than usual. I slowed and checked - and they were not correct.

If I'd had a full car - then I'm positive the tyres would have given out - and I'd be one of the stats we're talking about.

I think it says a lot if overall your saying no one is or should be checking around the car before heading off at each journey. Sounds similar to a volvo forum saying we shouldnt check our oil levels between services !! Mad or what.

Get the simple stuff right - and the more difficult overall stuff will become better as a result.

In which case I missed your contradiction.




Who said that?
That’s a poor example of sophistry. Better trolls have tried – and failed!

Smeggus

you add the following above

peegee wrote:
Most kids putting 3 or 4 friends in a small car dont even reset the tyre pressures - therefore increasing the movement and possible failure of a tyre by a huge amount.

Quote from Smeggy:
Are you telling me that some kids do? I would be surprised if some from any age group does.

Your implying that no one does this or any other group - not sure as your grasp seems to have left you there.

What I'm saying that is part of whats wrong with the drivers - turn it on - expect it to work!!! Then we blame any kid crash on their lack of experience - and not the fact their car wasnt prepared to carry 5 blokes (which could account for 400kg extra in the car)...

I recently stopped in glasgow for a weekend - and when coming out of the hotel spotted a new TT sitting outside - the duty managers car - went over and immediately spotted the sidewall was "bulging" - because it the first thing I check when approaching a car - even to look. I informed the doorman - who passed on the details to the duty manager who thanked me for the help when I got back from my meal that evening.

Moral to the story - he'd been running around in a car all set to "blowout" next time the tyre was "stretched" at speed.

It's not age which is the problem, it's training and attitude.
I had a full pilot's licence when I was but 17, but the training, ab-initio and on-going, meant that there was respect for the risks together with a real interest in aviation and piloting.

Is it age or experience that is the risk factor?

If we assume that most drivers passed at 17, and consider that insurance companies (who have the best data after all) believe you become lower risk at 25, does that mean that at 25 most people have gotten it out of their system, or does it mean that it takes 8 years to build up sufficient experience to become a low risk?

If it's the latter than all that will result is that we'll have to wait until 26 before getting lower insurance premiums, and we'll still have the same accidents we have now.