Safe Speed Forums

actually now you mention it.. i go with 10seconds too.

it was a bit of a guide from my advanced instructor and i often find myself doing a self assesment by pulling in and counting to 10!

The problem with it is that it uses 66% of the available road lanes, instead of 33%.

To say that staying in one lane reduces the number of lane changing manoeuvres is just wrong, when you add up all the other additional lane changes that a middle land hog generates for other drivers.

Since this thread started, I've been considering the problem.

I think drivers are getting totally the wrong message.

We're saying: keep left except when overtaking.

When we should be saying: make room for faster traffic to pass you.

The problem with any of these rules is that once they have failed to assist they are far too easy to ignore. It's a learning by experience thing for all of us.

We need to get drivers to co-operate with other drivers, not with government missives.

Well, it's a thought, anyway.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Absolutely agree.

There is no point in having hard and fast rules about when you should or should not get into L1. If your not holding anyone up there is no point in pulling into L1 even if the next vehicle is some distance off. Similarly, if you can let someone past by moving into L1 and easing off a bit then that is an entirely sensible thing to do.

However it works both way in that faster traffic should allow some give and take to allow overtaking by slower moving trucks/vans/cars without throwing their toys out of the pram.

I've been thinking about it too. I reckon that the problem is people don't see changing lanes on motorways as an overtaking maneuver.

When we do treat lane changes as overtakes - and we generally do on dual carriageways - then we pull back in as soon as is safe for the most part. The lane 2 hog on a DC (or 2 lane MW) is a much rarer sight than the middle lane owner on a 3 lane road.

Because our MWs are so busy most of the time this perception is pretty understandable. If I was in charge of a solution then the path of least resistance would lead me towards legitimising undertaking.

You have never been on the A419 round Swindon then - its a bloomin common sight here!

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I think that even during the life of this thread lane 2 hogs on DCs have increased in number - there is some very wrong message taking hold...

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likewise gold and jewels,
but I would slave to learn the way
to sink your ship of fools

Have to confess I usually drive in L2 to avoid the tramlines, however, am always observing and if someone comes up behind will move over before they get to me.

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Agree with the ten-second rule.

Also....

Regarding DCs L2 hoggers: has anyone noticed that this is much worse on DCs without roundabouts?

L2 numpties seem to instinctively dive left before roundabouts, which breaks the spell.

Southern examples: A31 new forest becomes A31 Ringwood-Ferndown and the roundabouts start.

A34 Winchester - Oxford, then A43 to Northampton.

In both cases IMHO the former section is far worse for L2 numpties as there are no interruptions

Yes, but this is counteracted by the fact that the 40mph crew (who are, thankfully, usually in L1 on DCs) all get into L2 3 miles before the roundabout if they are turning right.

I just undertake them, since they're obviously in the right turn lane

I don't know why this particular driver was driving in L3, but why would you or anyone else have a problem with this driver considering that they were already clearly doing at least the speed limit?

Oh no, I probably shouldn't have said something like that on a site like this...

I better prepare myself for the hypocritical moans!

Oh by the way, having been on various other message boards and given similar comments, I suppose I should let you all know that:
(a)I'm not Gordon Brown
(b)I don't work for the Labour party
(c)I do drive
(d)I'm not self-deluded
(e)I'm not stupid

The problem comes because it is unexpected behavior, and breaks from the norms of the road. Sure, people who wanted to pass could do so to his left, but this again breaks with convention. The more predictable we can make people's driving the safer it becomes for everyone. I believe you'll find that using the correct lane at a roundabout carries the same legal weight as motorway lane discipline, but think of the carnage if some people just decided to start using the right-hand approach lane to turn left!

Oh, by the way, having had various other new posters come here and make assumptions about our driving habits and motivations, I suppose I should let you know that:

(a) I'm not a boy racer
(b) I don't drive a powerful car
(c) I seldom break the speed limit
(d) I don't believe in the abolition of all speed limits
(e) I have no points on my licence

There was an article in our local paper (did not appear on the web) last week from a Police officer complaining about drivers who will not move over for police cars with lights and sirens on. The speed is irrelevant - you should not be in L2 or L3 if you are not passing other vehicles. If you are too blind, deaf or stupid not to notice a Police car with lights and sirens then you should not be on the road at all.

What does it matter if someone is exceeding the speed limit so long as it doesn't affect you?! You aren't the police and you don't have the authority or the right to enforce the law on the road - traffic officers have to go through years of training to learn how to apply the law in an appropriate and useful way.

HOWEVER. By 'blocking' someone from using the correct lane you are at best driving without due care and attention. You are also forcing someone to perform a menueovre which COULD be considered to be DWDCA or dangerous driving and above all you are showing a complete lack of courtisy and respect for your fellow road users.

Use the correct lane and make sure YOU are driving in a safe and legal manner before you try to preach to others who likely are far safer behind the wheel than you.

To echo Robin's retorts

a) I'm not a boy racer (might be tricky that one )
b) I don't drive a powerful car
c) I always drive at a safe and appropriate speed for the conditions
d) I believe in sensible policing and the application of logic to speed limits
e) I have no points on my licence and have never been at fault in an accident.

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Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.

I'm not actually applying the law like that though. I'm simply driving in the middle lane at the speed limit. I'm not trying to get other drivers to pull over! It matters to me because I find it irritating that so many drivers think that they are above the law. Just like you find it irritating that some drivers hog the middle lane.



But someone speeding is, in my opinion, showing a complete lack of courtesy and respect for other road users. And if drivers stuck to the speed limit then they're not being forced to DWDCA because they won't be catching up to me. And I'm not blocking someone from using the correct lane because I wouldn't be driving in the middle lane if I was going slower than the speed limit. I'm not defending someone who does 50 in the middle lane.



I'm not preaching anymore than you lot are. By the way, how can you say that they are likely to be far safer behind the wheel than me, when in a lot of cases they are doing far higher speeds. Like the guy who admitted on this thread or another one that he did 100.



I really don't know why you and Robin have been so keen to come out with "retorts". I only mentioned them to stop people coming out with the lame old "you just work for the Labour Party" lines.

Well I agree wholeheartedly in the case of the police.

But it's clearly not unexpected behaviour with so many people apparently driving in the middle lane. I completely agree on roundabouts though.



Well, good, it's nice to hear it!

But if you want to know why people might make certain assumptions, it's because of reading comments like that one where someone admitted that he did 100. Oh, and more generally because of your prosecutions section.

"The speed limit" is a random number thought up by people who aren't on the road at the time. How is it more important than your own common sense, as a person who is driving along the road at the time? How can you trust someone else's opinion - someone who might be biased because they make money from enforcing speed limits? Someone who might want to cause congestion in order that they can charge us because of it?

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Andrew.

Perhaps because noone here has accused you of working for the labour party, but we are very used to new posters like you pitching up here with your apparent prejudices about the members here!

Your posts are continued nonsense and flawed logic!



I'm not that guy. How many advanced motoring courses have you done? Do you think that doing 100mph makes someone less safe than someone wilfully obstructing traffic?



Yes yes, again conveniently ignoring the fact that if your speedo reads 70mph, then you are doing less. Kind of makes you realise how irrelevant a number is to safe speed, doesn't it?

You never answered my question; if there is room for you to move into the left lane with no inconvenience to yourself, what purpose is being served by obstructing other drivers in the middle lane? Who do you suppose put you in charge of 'teaching people a lesson'?

You can't have it one way and not the other, sorry, they're the same issue, transposed.



My prosecutions section? Do you suppose that all those posting in the prosecutions section represent all of the other members of the public who are free to posts to these fora?