Safe Speed Forums

As posted by someone on another forum:-

Discuss.

_________________
Smokebelching,CO2 making,child murdering planet raping,granny mugging,politically incorrect globally warming (or is it climate changing now it's getting colder?)thug.
That's what the government want you to believe of me. If they get back in I'm emigrating.

My 2c:

I prefer to see them on so long as visibility is substantially reduced, otherwise off.

I like to keep some part of the vehicle in front within sight when driving. It’s better to see them slowing down than suddenly have them appear from nowhere already at a complete halt. The use of rear fogs allows me to extend the gap between us while keeping them in sight.

_________________
Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

I see a long thread developing here!!

Agreed. If conditions are akin to fog which warranted FOG LIGHTS or ANY REASON, (dust?) then turn them on.

If the FOG is only thin, and does not affect visibility (eg drifting from adjacent fields only) then leave them off if they would dazzle the drivers behind.
If it is intermittent, you can usually touch the brake pedal and bring on your brake lights briefly until the driver behind is aware.

Front fogs seem to me to be the MOST abused feature - and if somebody comes up behind, once you are aware they are there, they should be turned off - or not even be ON if it's NOT foggy.

Try turning on your rear fog when they do this in no fog conditions, and they'll usually flash their lights at you angrily!

Edited to correct the results of a sticking keybard!

_________________
Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

Hmm. Well, that depends...

If visibility conditions are such that you can see further than your safe following distance then keeping them in sight can be good. But if visibility is worse then perhaps you can't keep them in sight.

This matters at low speed. Your stopping distance may well be less than your 'time to react' distance. At high speed your stopping distance is greater than your time-to-react gap...

So the 2 second rule / time to react thing is fixed at some nominal value in the 2 second ballpark, and sets a safe and reasonable following distance. While the braking distance sets the 'safe speed' / gap in front and varies with speed.

_________________
Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Is there not some rule/guidance within the highway code about not using foglights unless the vis is <10m?

I've no problem with people using them when conditions dictate, and I tend to knock them on if I can't see a vehicle clearly a safe distance in front, but what is irritating is people forgetting they have activated them and then driving along in fine conditions, dazzling everyone else!

< 100m, yeah.

_________________
Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

That certainly makes more sense than my typo

Is it a 'must' or a 'should'?

Rule 94

YOU MUST NOT USE front or rear fog lights unless visibility is greatly reduced. You MUST switch them off when visibility improves to avoid dazzling other road users




This is re-iterated as MUST in rules 201 and 211.

Rule 210 contains decent advice such as keeping a good safe distance from the car in front of you ..



Using demisters/wipers/being aware that some muppets do not use any lights at all

Not to accelerate to get away from vehicle you consider too close to you

Check mirrors and use brakes - feather them so that the driver behind knows for sure you are slowing down

stop in correct position at junctions and listen for traffic as well as look

_________________
Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.

Where did that come from?

It's not a good rule; I do it a lot; and frequently it works like a charm.

The trick is NEVER to get carried away with it and end up driving too fast for the conditions.

_________________
Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

I have only encountered VERY rare occasions where rear fog lights would be useful. IMO, they are pretty bad devices as they mask brake lights coming on. I prefer sidelights becoming visible as these give better sense of distance and we are all used to their brightness levels.

On motorways, a car a distance in front changing lanes to reveal a car with fog lights on can cause sudden braking until you realise what is going on.

These lights are more trouble than they are worth.

_________________
Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

That's probably true. I can recall perhaps 5 times in 20 years where they have been genuinely useful, but in a week's motorway driving they are probably a pain more than once.

But the rare benefit is real, and the frequent problems are not really the fault of the fog lights, but the fault of ignorance. I have strong sympathies with anyone who would rather take on the ignorance than lose the benefit.

_________________
Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

And the muppets who have them on when sitting in traffic jams? what's their excuse?

_________________
www.misspelled-signs.com - A tribute to illiterate signwriters.

That they are muppets?

This is one of the big problem areas for road safety policy. Whatever we do there will always be muppets.

And one of the big problems for anyone who wants to drive safely. Whatever we do must allow for the behaviour of muppets.

Any policy or driving plan made based on the assumption that people won't be muppets is doomed to fail, and probably fail sooner rther than later. Instead we need policies and driving plans which anticipate and work around muppet-behaviour as much as possible.

One large, important, sad side effect is that we risk blaming muppets instead of solving the real problem...

_________________
Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

This is less of a problem in vehicles fitted with a high level brake light over or below the rear screen, since this clearly is a brake lamp.
The Peugeot 206 has a single centrally placed fog lamp.

I rarely use my fog light - but I did last week on the M6, when I realised that the spray was so dense, I could noty see the rear lights of vehicles in front until I was right on top of them.
Surely this should be a good guide - if you cannot see them, then they cannot see you. If conditions improve to where you CAN see rear lights - switch them off - as I do.

I dont presently have front fogs, but when I have had in the past, I turned them on when I needed them to see, and off when an oncoming car showed where the road was, or I caught up a car in front, whose rear lights showed the view ahead was sufficient to be safe.

_________________
Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

Sadly far too true and the number of muppets seems to be increasing.

Lets educate the muppets properly-that'd solve the problem.

_________________
Smokebelching,CO2 making,child murdering planet raping,granny mugging,politically incorrect globally warming (or is it climate changing now it's getting colder?)thug.
That's what the government want you to believe of me. If they get back in I'm emigrating.

Why do people in this stupid country do that? "You aren't following my interpretation of 'the rules' so I will hurt you and laugh at you and feel good about doing it".

_________________
Andrew.

In general terms I think IG is right, but if another vehicle is following you too closely it is probably because he considers (rightly or wrongly) that you're travelling unduly slowly. In that case if you're able to safely pick up the pace somewhat and make better progress, he may feel less frustrated and back off a bit. It won't work with everybody; tailgating is just normal procedure for some - unfortunately.

Best wishes Paul, and everyone,
Dave.

Rear fog lights are, by design & purpose, highly visible, attracting attention and potentially distracting. I find when on unecesarily they can 'smother' the brake light, being of the same intensity and colour. Especially in the rain they can cause an irritating glare such that I've found myself driving while looking at an angle, using periphial vision to see forwards. Those that insist on using them frequently are probably the same ****wits that think driving at 70 in the fast lane "makes other drivers safer".

I've been driving 11 years, doing at times 25k+ a year, and needed to use my rear fogs maybe a dozen times.

_________________
Fear is a weapon of mass distraction

Beware of Rear Dazzle.

_________________
Andrew.

Agreed. I find front fogs very useful when driving along unlit B-roads or country lanes. AISI, it fulfils the criteria in the HC quite well; an unlit B-road or country lane has substantially reduced visibility. Why not use every means at your disposal to increase forward vision?

Obviously, as EM states above, there are also instances when deciding to turn them off is as important as that to turn them on.

_________________
Simon