Safe Speed Forums

Hello All,

i'm new here so can someone with experiance help me.
i am going to court as i can not tell who driving, wife or i, from the photo, and do not recall. i had written letters of mitigation to the police and court, but have been asked to attend very soon.

basically my question is what will happen? how long will it take? 30 mins, 3 hours,? i understand they can be quite bullish, my wife is worried they can send you to prison (they cant can they?) what can i expect.
Quite worried actually.

Get over to Pepipoo. Loads of information

If I remember correctly, if you are genuinely unsure of who the driver was at the time of the offence (making a false statement would be perjury, which does carry a prison sentence) then you have a "Para 4 defence" to the charge of speeding. This is taken from the Section 172 (paragraph 4) of the Road Traffic Act.

This posting is a good place to start Para 4 defence example

You do have to show the court "reasonable diligence" in trying to ascertain who was driving at the time (reasonable diligence is lower the due diligence - its explained over in pepipoo.

Good luck - if you genuinely can't recall who was driving you have nothing to worry about. Follow the advice from Pepipoo!

You have to show how you exhausted your efforts towards trying to find out was driving at the time; simply saying ‘I don’t know’ won’t fly.

ok, i hear what your saying, but how do they know if someone GENUINELY doesnt know or is lying?

do you know how long it all takes?

what if someone, after reading websites like this and taken the advice and tips about how to find out who was driving, found out, but had entered a not guilty plea to the court on the green slip and had only 4 days to go?

thanks for the advice.

The court have to prove that you have broken section 172.
It is thier job to prove you broke the law.
If you can put a plausable doubt that you may not have broken the law,

In theory you should not be convicted uless they can prove that you did know who was driving.

However as said earlier , shakey cases with lies have come unstuck with prison terms.

_________________
Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code

Define Shakey cases please.

i mean how can they prove, do they investigate?

what about my other question, can you change your plea?

cheers,

They don’t. They will apply pressure and try to weed out those who try to wiggle out of it. You can expect a good probing!
I don’t know how long these kinds of proceedings last.

The defendant(s) will have to demonstrate the steps they took to find out who was driving at the time of the offence, like: who wasn't at work, who was shopping and where (card statements may help)........ I can only assume both of you are licensed and insured to drive the car.
The case will have to be dropped if the court accepts you don't have a means for determining who committed the offence.
You can expect trouble if they find such a means that you overlooked.



Someone should contact the court as soon as possible explaining the new situation; I believe someone can change their plea. I don’t know if that someone would still face court costs (probably around £35).

Trouble? What do you mean? Are we all expected to be Piorot now

If they find evidence of who was driving, evidence which they accept you should have found with a reasonable amount of effort but didn’t, you’ll be done for failure to supply. If they found out you were telling porkies (like you must have known she was at work at the time of the offence), you’ll be done for perjury.


Yes. In today’s world you have to prove your innocence.

I’m not saying this is right, I’m just saying how it is.

nope, it was 11 ish on a Tuesday night. given that we had 28 days to respond and we didnt deal with it striaght away, we couldnt recall.
we assumed we had been coming home from my parents but we now can recall that we went to a restaurant. but we still cant be sure who was driving. in all probability is was my wife but as is was a work night either of us could have been driving and the photo does not help.

It sounds like a plausible defence; a card statement will help support it.
I can only assume you can’t see just one person/silhouette in the car?


That’s sneaky.

s172 trials don't usually take very long at all. Some are over in 10 minutes, some can take a couple of hours or so. It all depends on how much evidence you put forward and how long you take to do it.

The CPS will tell the court that they sent you a request for identification of the driver and that you failed to respond in the 28 days.

If you accept that you did indeed get the s172 request its then up to you to tell the court what you did to try to ID the driver. If the court feel that amounts to reasonable diligence then its a not guilty verdict.

Any one can change a plea, either way at any time. In your case you will be asked to confirm at the very start of your trial if you still intend to plead not guilty. This is not, as some forums will allege, an attempt to get you to change your mind, neither is it an admission that the CPS have a poor case. Its just a last minute chance for you in case you have remembered who was driving and are unaware that a change of plea is possible.